Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional good things happen, too

An update, the bad and the good:

Bad
I've concluded that focusing on what the school should or should not be doing is a waste of energy. It's too draining, emotionally, and time-consuming, mentally, to fret about the justice/injustice of the situation.

I reached this conclusion after receiving the Notice of Action (evaluation refused), which said "immediately contact if you disagree," making contact via email, and receiving no response whatsoever. I can only assume that the SPED processor would not ignore my inquiry if this wasn't supported by the district culture.

Good
DS seems to be improving on the organizational piece of the puzzle. More assignments are being handed in during school and so there is less scanning/emailing taking place.

We accidentally stumbled upon something that *might* be making a huge difference: a page of his planner was destroyed, so for that week, I created a replacement page with no visual clutter, that followed the actual order of his classes and gave him much more room to write. Voila! Suddenly the planner makes sense. Suddenly he can remember what he wrote in the planner to begin with, and can tell me verbatim without looking. Coincidence? I don't know or care. I think it was spaghetti who suggested the custom planner--best tip ever.

Important: DS is slowly coming out of his shell a little, and actually DISCUSSING with me when he feels overwhelmed, and is willing to analyze a bit. He even made the connection that his (severe) seasonal allergies have an impact on his attention/focus and that "of course" he'd feel stressed on a day with several major assignments, test, and quizzes all happening.

Even More Important: DS is starting to tell me about odd interactions with teachers, in detail. Most recently, he explained that there is a very difficult dance-type move used as a warm-up in PE, and that it's the bane of his existence because he can't do it. PE teacher asked why he's not doing it, he told PE teacher because he doesn't *want* to (he doesn't want to, because he can't--ha). I explained maybe telling teacher it's difficult for him would be a better response but he's not ready for that level of vulnerability.

Best of All: Received glowing, gushing email from science teacher about how much she loves having DS in class--that he is funny and she loves joking in class and he gets her humor and vice versa. It's a little ironic that his math/science teachers like him best when his strength area is really more humanities/arts oriented but I'll take it anyhow. My working hypothesis is that science/math folks are more logical and less likely to take offense to his blunt, literal communication style.

So, that is where we are at the moment. He is going to have a private SLP evaluation, and I hope we learn more about pragmatics and written expression. He is continuing with CBT therapist who seems very helpful so far. His new psychiatrist wasn't thrilled with my plea to discontinue SSRI for now but was willing to allow it. If we try again, or try a new one, it will be during an extended school break.

I feel like I've kind of given up, in some ways, but the stress made me physically ill. So, for now, we'll just have to assume the school is not interested in helping DS (although they are quite happy to complain, when necessary). Some of the observations last year's teachers made (DS is negative, other kids don't like him, etc.) appear to have been situational. Nobody is saying those things now--and he seems to be having a lot of social interactions (still all at school, but okay), several friends he's texting with, etc.

At the end of the day one has to be pragmatic and realize that Rome wasn't built in a day.

We got a grade skip which got our DD out of a particularly toxic situation with girl age peers but it wasn't enough for her academic development. We have pragmatically chosen to go along with the school because social development will be important, nay critical, to both current and future mental health.

But we have decided to enrich after school via AoPS for Maths and an online composition class for expository LA.

Not ideal but a compromise that moves us, albeit at a slower pace, in the general direction we need to go.

Above all don't beat yourself up over it - you need to look after yourself too so that you can better look after your dependants. When I was younger and fitter I was a lifeguard and the first lesson we learned of first aid was "don't make a causality of yourself becuase then you can help nobody". I tried to remember that lesson well and it has helped me over the years.

Chin up!

YMMV

Yes, or the old "put on your own oxygen mask first" analogy.

Ultimately, if DS is happy AND learning, that is the important thing.

I've learned some important things. A) the squeaky wheel does not necessarily receive any more expedient grease, B) ascertain which hill I'm willing to die upon and C) life is too short to dance with ugly...educators.

Could I be any more trite?

For the time being, am focusing on many positives. DS is a lovely child--will not allow "them" to make me think otherwise.

Reminds me of communications I have recieved as well, "call with any questions", etc. and then when I do, there is no response.

I think in such situations it is ideal to get out of the toxic environment, but if there are no better options, you are kind of stuck and have to make the best of it. It makes me sad though, that this type of thing happens all the time and these toxic school districts basically "win", because the parent is unable to fight them. You have to do what is best for yourself and your family though. I didn't really win either, when I tried to take them on. We ended up switching schools. I did feel better, though, in that maybe my complaining made it a little better for the next person in line. Maybe at least one person, in the mess, thought about some things and the negative effects of all the stupidity. Then again, maybe not. Maybe no one thinks about any of this at all.

Glad to hear that you are seeing some improvements and feel better about how things are going.

Thanks blackcat. Basically I concluded there is no great fit for DS, although high school is looking more promising. Complicating the situation is that quick, organized, perfectionist DD is really thriving in the program. Because, you know, it's a good fit for her.

Anyone who meets my two would suspect DS is more "gifted" (he's not, WISC-wise, anyhow). So there you have it...not all gifted programs are open and supportive of 2E students. Big surprise, right?

Nope, but some of them claim to be, like ours, then you get there and they put no thought into how 2e kids are functioning there. The LA teacher told me that a lot of the kids in the program are horrible at writing. Ok, then, why give EVERYONE the same 8 page typed research paper assignment with a strict grading rubic, if only SOME of the students are capable of doing that?
They thought that just accepting DD the way she was was enough. But it's not Ok to let a 4th grader wander around the classroom all day, doing no work, then inflating her grades. That's not doing her any favors. If I had complained too much, and insisted on interventions, then it's quite possible I would have gotten the "maybe this isn't the right program for her, the door is over there..." speech, but it never got to that point. I could see it wasn't going to work out so pulled her. DS qualifies for the program based on scores but he's also 2e and I know no one over there would give him interventions with the goal of improving. They would simply allow him to not do the work but give him good grades anyway. That's their way of dealing with 2e, and then they pat themselves on the back for being so accepting. Other programs are different in that they want to force these kids out. I didn't get that sense. They just had very little interest in doing extra work to help kids improve, or else they meant well but were way too disorganized.

This reminds me of my DS14, who is gifted but not 2e. He has a very dry, sarcastic sense of humor. Apparently some teachers didn't appreciate this.

For one assignment in language arts, he had to write a humorous story. He did and I thought it was pretty funny. But the teacher gave him a B- because she didn't.

On the brighter side, DS14 has a ton of friends, and they all seem to enjoy his sense of humor. So there.

Anyway don't be put off it some teachers don't get your kid. Others will.

You need to take care of yourself. Hopefully you have some time for exercise, a drink, and a night out now and then. Having a 2e kid is exhausting though (do I ever know this...) and sometimes vegging out in front of the TV is sufficient relief. But the point is, take care of yourself too.

DS sounds like he is going to turn out fine, in spite of school, not necessarily because of it. The challenge is getting him from here to there.

My son went through all the editorial iterations when he submitted a short story for the high school literary magazine. All the student editors loved it. It went to the faculty sponsor for final approval; she wrote "i don't get it" and that was that. Sigh. But he went on to write and produce a play in college, so the experience didn't keep him down for long.

Thank you for the reframe! This decision really made itself. I simply don't have the time or resources to spend 100% of each on DS, especially since nothing was helping (at least in terms of 504/IEP), anyhow.


The mental image of little DS whipping out the 504 made me giggle. He is extraordinarily passive. I don't know exactly how to encourage self-advocacy, but maybe the signs he's showing, in terms of a little more self-awareness, are a first step.


Yes, I think the most shocking part of The Year From Hell was that, in the past, his teachers seemed to get him and like him (despite himself, sometimes). I'd expected the gifted teachers to get him *more* but that was not the case.

I will add, though, that this year he has a couple of more seasoned gifted teachers on board--and they (so far) have not said he is doing anything offensive or unexpected.


Not sure if PTSD-induced tachycardia counts as cardio... but yes, a little down time and "time off" from 2E, very important. I'm leaning toward an abundance of cats and audiobooks, since even keeping eyes open for TV is a stretch at the moment. I wonder how many Crazy Cat Ladies had children with disabilities? Maybe there's a thesis in there, somewhere...


I'm glad your DS is resilient. I think mine is, too--he doesn't seem to take it to heart much when teachers don't like/get him. The neuropsychologist mentioned in her report that DS "has decided people either like him, or they don't, and there's nothing he can do to change that." I'm pretty sure she was using that as of evidence of his social deficit, but I think there is something okay about that. Surely it's healthier than constantly trying to change oneself, self-loathing, or futile people-pleasing.

He's done some amusing things this year, trying to learn from past mistakes. One: a teacher complaint from last year was that he wrote IDK on many test responses (and she was convinced this was laziness). I explain to DS this is perceived as being smart-alecky or lazy. So now his strategy is to write a lengthy, apologetic "I am sorry, but I don't remember enough details to answer this question properly." LOL, DS. Even this could be seen as being a smart @$$ but he's trying, so I'm leaving it alone.

He will absolutely NOT attempt an (essay) answer unless he is positive he knows every nook and cranny of it. Next on our list of goals (I'm enlisting help for this one--namely Uncle who shares a very similar profile and sense of humor with DS)--learn the fine art of BS.

DS doesn't understand that he would receive a lot of credit just for his command of language. So we are going to teach him how to answer a question without actually saying anything. I graduated with honors in English using just this method...but I was more savvy than DS. Of course, that is true of [insert any inanimate object here]. So DS' curriculum will be "learn to play the game." Now he knows there *is* a game, so that is learning, too. Right?


I hope. And yes. Never a dull moment.

Ugh. The old "playing the game" approach is unfortunately so necessarily in academia. I'm teaching DS14 (not 2e) this strategy, as his first year of high school is quite demanding. Get inside the teacher's heads, learn what they want to hear, and then give it to them. So many really smart kids underperform because they either have trouble figuring out what to study or how to present their answers.

But my 2e DS12 does what he wants and is not ready for the game. Ironically, he's probably learning more effectively this way.

Mine was not ready last year, either, and I agree that he actually learned more advanced concepts when he was left alone.

The only (and I do mean ONLY) reason DS is now ready to hear/learn/try re: the Game is because he really, really wants to stay in his program. This is not because he feels anything important is happening academically, but because his identity is tightly mapped to the "gifted" piece and he really, really loves the banter with a couple of his similar friends.

If he didn't want to go to school, or didn't care about his placement, I'd have zero leverage.

I guess, for DS, with puberty has come a bit of a transition from idealism to pragmatism. This happened when it happened. I don't think there's anything I could have done to accelerate the process.

For DS14 we saw a significant increase in maturity, responsibility, and independence between the end of 7th grade to the end of 8th grade. Our friends and neighbors have said similar things about their boys "getting it together" in 8th grade. DS14 now does his 2-3 hours of homework a night on his own (occasionally asking for help), organizes study groups with his friends, and so on.

We're hoping against hope for this transition in DS12.

It seems like hope against hope, but seriously--if MY DS can do it, yours can, too. Mine doesn't even care about his grades or what people think.

(Not that we are by any means out of the woods, just he is really different now at almost 13 than he was last year. He entered obvious puberty in sixth grade.)

This is more of my uneducated conjecture about hormones, but DS here has changed a LOT. He is still very short but he has a little mustache (to which his breakfast clings, attractively), some acne, and his voice is changing. He has learned to use deodorant without being reminded. Along with these signs of impending maturity, his level of cooperation and buy-in has improved.

I also work with a lot of adolescents who have diagnoses and the boys frequently talk about how much "trouble" they used to be in at school, before they mellowed out.

I think there's a lot of reason to have hope.

Wonder if this applies to girls too? I think we have at least 3 more years, though.

For me, it was after having children. Hope that's a bit further out than three years for your DD (and mine, too!)

Seriously, though, isn't there a lot of research about frontal lobe developmental stages, etc.? I probably read it here. Isn't there some idea about some EF delays in our kids that they are about three years behind, and "NT" kids make huge leaps around age nine...so twelve is about right(ish)?

At any rate, having an attentive (pun intended) parent can only help our neuro-atypical children...I keep telling myself this, anyhow.

I'm wondering if there are some brain changes with puberty and what, specifically, they are. I was rather scattered in grade school and underperforming. Then I got to high school and everything kind of clicked and I turned into a straight A student (I was somewhat late developing).

Girls in particular seem very concerned about thier appearance by Jr. High/High school and some EF skills are going to be needed to remember to take showers, fix hair, do makeup, arrange outfits, etc. Maybe that will be the motivation needed, although I cringe that it may end up being the superficial stuff that is the motivation to learn some of these skills. Right now it's difficult to even get DD to take showers or change her clothes so she's not wearing the same clothes 2-3 days in a row.

I remember watching "Inside the Teenage Brain" a long time ago when my first child (with complex neuro issues) was in puberty. Here's an article referencing that show and giving a simple explanation of puberty and brain changes:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/teenbrain/work/adolescent.html

My eldest has a constellation of neurological symptoms, the most alarming of which is a seizure disorder that had its onset at puberty. Interestingly, his seizures originated in the frontal lobe. It's not uncommon for kids to either "grow out" of seizures in adolescence or to have an exacerbation. Weird stuff.

When you throw in kids with EF issues, who knows how all of this works. There are all kinds of neurology based research articles about ADHD, ASD, etc., on the internet but they are way above my pay grade. I know there are quantifiable differences between "normal" and "abnormal" brains, that can be seen with various types of imaging.

Good article--thanks. I thought the part where they talked about the cerebellum was also interesting, because a lot of kids with clumsiness or DCD seem to show improvements when they hit adolescence.

Update: I did receive an email in response to my question about Notice of Action.

He is not suspected of having a disability under IDEA because:

* Current grades - 4 As and 2 Bs
* Input from current teachers - Some specific input includes the following:
* a good student who works hard
* is very bright
* performance exceeds that of most other student in the class
* has very high potential
* remarks in class are well thought out
* State and district assessment scores
* Our school psychologist reviewed the 5/12/15 Neuropsychological Evaluation.

Okay, I really do get the rationale. Except for the part we he is only 1/4 of the way through the year, and the NP report is pretty clear about how bad things *can* get.

The good news: I only have to over-function for another three quarters. I can do this, although I may have to take steroids. DS' health is looking pretty good, but I'm losing weight and sleep and having flare of chronic health condition.

These are just jewels in my shield, yes?

We're not playing "shouldas" here. But you shouldn't have to fight and flail behind the scenes to help DS function. He needs to learn the skills to do it without wearing an adult helper into the ground.

Their reasons are bogus. An IEP isn't about how smart the child is; it's about developing academic and functional skills that should be there, but aren't. Here we are talking about functional skills.

Can you talk to the person who manages the program and see if in light of new diagnostic information they can reconsider the probation and work toward teaching him what he needs?

I know you are right, Dee Dee. And maybe I can become more of an activist once I've moved DS through the program. Nothing I've done has been well-received so far, which makes me think that either I'm absolutely HORRIBLE at this, or they are intractable.

He does seem to be making a little progress. I'm doing some kind of unorthodox things (not *that* bad, but things like sending text reminders during the day "don't forget your horn, be sure to stop by Mrs. X class, etc.") Things that aren't perfect but are working a little bit.

He's made a huge leap in terms of: filling out planner (yay!), completing work (yay!), and even turning in some of it without scanning/email.

For second quarter, I'm hiring study skills tutor/after school helper and getting SLP eval (and possible services).

I know it shouldn't be like this but it is...not forever. Once he's out of this MS program there are much more creative options. I think.

Can you document all that you're doing to keep him on track and provide this as evidence that he has a disability that requires an IEP? You shouldn't have to let him fail for the school to see that there is a problem.

Maybe provide a log of one week of your life? That has to have some value, I would think.

We do a lot at home with our 12yo who is on an IEP. Without us to explain assignments to him, he wouldn't be able to do them. But once he understand them, he does fine.

And take care of yourself too. You need to be on your game in order to be the best advocate for your kids. Easier said than done, I know...

Here's the deal: I think I'd have to let him fail and even then they would say they don't have to evaluate him because he isn't placed at grade level. So then I could let him go to regular MS, and let him fail there, too (he would, without medication and all the stuff I do at home). So, realistically, he'd be halfway through his eighth grade year before receiving any services--IF they decided to evaluate him at all. They might not--because MS is at the "social pass" level and his state test scores are high.

I think they have me over a barrel and know it. Even when I push about the 504, the response was, basically--should he really be in this program, then?

See? It's kind of icky.

I can either over function and suffer or allow my son to fail and suffer. Nice, huh?

Honestly, though, this is hella better than last year, at any rate.

Ironically, if you have a kid like mine who displays disruptive behavior in class, you'll get a lot of attention. Not the good kind of attention, but at least they take notice. Your son seems to quietly suffer, which seems to be worse in some ways.

Two different challenges, and two different poor responses from respective schools.

But the 504 / IEP question is completely separate from whether he is gifted. I think they are messing with you in that regard.

He wasn't so quiet last year--even had a suspension (The X-Acto Knife Incident), and was verbally/emotionally abused by one teacher (documented). I guess last year is "off the table" as far as SPED is concerned, even though program coordinator and school counselor both encouraged me to seek neuropsychological testing.

He could go to once a week pull-out for gifted if he was in regular MS. The problem is that it isn't graded and isn't acceleration, which he is evidently capable of (in some respects).

Yes, it's baloney that when he does well he isn't served but if he doesn't, they just want to boot him.

I don't envy the meltdowns, BSM, but you're right that at *least* they will want to do something to help, in that case.

None of this is a lot of fun, but I guess nobody ever said this parenting thing would be, right?

I really don't feel too bad about it any more. I know I've tried to the best of my ability and I'm pretty sure the district isn't doing the right thing. Even if my communication has been clunky.

This isn't that unorthodox. I know many parents who text there kids multiple times a day to remind them of things. Of course that is then what the media labels as 'helicoptering' but in your case it's simply what you need to do to get your child to function.

Thank you for that! I never wanted to hover--so funny, as smart as DS is, I always thought school would be the easy part! I'm sure all the 2E parents understand that.

He's really good right now, comparatively. I guess I'm mostly worn out with being his executive function. But am seeing progress.

We got the same bogus reasons for why DD did not qualify for any services (but at least they did an evaluation--the eval was a piece of crap but at least they went through the motions.) Basically it boiled down to the fact that she was being given advanced work, and you don't give special services to a student who is operating above grade level in terms of reading and math (because that's what the state tests). If she is unfocused or asleep 75 percent of time in class it doesn't matter as long as she can pass the tests. We got out of the toxic place, and current school states they are writing an IEP--I'll believe it when I see it.