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    #223141 - 10/03/15 06:55 AM Re: criticism and emotional intensity [Re: Nyaanyaa]
    indigo Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/27/13
    Posts: 4922
    Originally Posted By: Nyaanyaa
    Both positive and negative evaluation—including self-evaluation—activates the NEA.
    I may be missing something... where does the PEA come from? Hope, vision, mindfulness, playfulness, compassion... could not be positive openers for a conversation "sandwich"? During coaching, how is a child imbued with hope, vision, mindfulness, playfulness, compassion, thereby invoking the PEA? From the linked paper (which is focused on management and organizational behavior, not specifically child development) we read: "Examples of how to arouse the PEA include discussing the purpose of the organization, shared dreams or prospection of what one might become in the future, as well as discussing PEA components, like core values. Additionally, at the individual level, gratitude exercises are a powerful and fast way to evoke positive emotion and arouse the PEA" which seems like a way in which to frame things, to maintain context and perspective while working on "the development of alternate future scenarios".

    Originally Posted By: Nyaanyaa
    Regarding the “sandwich method” (a terrible name), I have personally never seen any mention of it in academic papers, and am suspicious of its validity and reliability. Can anyone provide information on its origin?
    I may be wrong, but am under the impression that it developed from a Dale Carnegie idea to start and end with something positive.

    It has been my understanding that the sandwich method of presenting constructive criticism came from anecdotes, observation, and lived experience, not from scientific research studies, therefore would not have measures such as "validity" and "reliability" attached to it.

    Either way, the sandwich method either helps the OP in coaching her child, or it does not... it is just one of many tools/approaches available.

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    #223143 - 10/03/15 07:29 AM Re: criticism and emotional intensity [Re: Nyaanyaa]
    eco21268 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/21/15
    Posts: 647
    Originally Posted By: Nyaanyaa


    If so, the theory is misapplied. Both positive and negative evaluation—including self-evaluation—activates the NEA.

    The driver of intentional change is the ideal self (i.e., vision), so the primary focus should be on that.

    A couple more papers by Boyatzis et al. for further information:
    PEA–NEA theory
    The ideal self as the driver of intentional change

    At the risk of sounding glib--I'll add that my own children have never seemed especially receptive to any piece of the sandwich. Maybe not true for all kids, but mine would be much more likely to respond to a personal vision of who they want to be.

    In the Mrs. Piggle-Wiggle books I read, growing up, this would be the "I'll do it because I want to, and not because you told me to" chapter.

    It's probably more optimal, long-term (internal v. external locus of control), but soooooo vexing at times.

    Thanks for links, Nyaanyaa. Looks like interesting information.

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    #223145 - 10/03/15 08:02 AM Re: criticism and emotional intensity [Re: Pinecroft]
    aeh Online   content
    Member

    Registered: 04/26/14
    Posts: 3984
    When I sit with adolescents, I generally take the vision approach. "What are your dreams and goals in life?" "What do you need in order to achieve them?" "Is it worth risking your long-term goals in life to take a stand on this relatively trivial issue?" "Would the choices you made/would make in this situation accurately represent the kind of person you truly are/aspire to be?"

    We discuss not allowing other people to take the power of choice away from us, which is what we are doing when something relatively tangential to long-term goals becomes an obstacle to achieving those goals by our own reaction to it.

    Our own children respond best not to sandwiching (although we always try to maintain a balance of feedback), but to frequent, spontaneous assurances of affection, without strings attached. It's not so much that the constructive criticism is bracketed by praise, but that the context of our relationship is positive and supportive. Obviously, I am not saying that families that have more struggles with receiving criticism are not caring and affectionate; some children do have higher intrinsic security needs, though, which means what would be more than enough reassurance for another child is not quite adequate for them. I see that just among the various children in our family, some of whom take criticism much better than others, and some of whom have much higher needs for unconditional positive regard.

    We also model (not really intentionally, just because of how we communicate ourselves) nuanced discussions of strengths, weaknesses, growth areas, adaptive/nonadaptive skills and strategies, etc. in everyday, technical/professional, and relational situations as they arise. (This sounds a bit loftier than it is in practice. One could also say that the SO and I analyze and discuss everything to within an inch of its life.)

    And on a totally unrelated note: I love Mrs. Piggle-Wiggle!
    _________________________
    ...pronounced like the long vowel and first letter of the alphabet...

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    #223146 - 10/03/15 08:12 AM Re: criticism and emotional intensity [Re: indigo]
    Nyaanyaa Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/25/15
    Posts: 64
    Originally Posted By: indigo
    I may be missing something... where does the PEA come from? Hope, vision, mindfulness, playfulness, compassion... could not be positive openers for a conversation sandwich?

    There's no avoiding the NEA altogether. Self-reflection (as typically triggered by evaluation), critical thinking . . . those things activate the NEA. The important thing is to keep the focus on the PEA, and let hope and vision be the driver of the change process.

    If you approach the conversation with a “I want to fix you” mindset, you are already headed towards the NEA. Instead of that, focus on such questions like what are their core values and ideals, who would they want to be 10 years from now if everything was ideal, what would their ideal relationships be like, who are the important people in their life and why do they treasure them . . . Remain playful and let those things drive the conversation. Be ready to answer questions like that yourself.

    Once the “coachee” has established a strong vision for themselves that way, you can look at where they stand now in relation to who they want to be (focusing a bit more on the strength), and then discuss a learning agenda—a plan to safely learn how to get from who they are now to who they want to be.

    A learning agenda does not only entail change necessarily. Often parts of the vision are things the person is already doing, so then the plan would be “keep doing that thing I am already doing” or “make sure I still have enough time for X” and so on.

    The driver of intentional change is indeed vision and hope. So, as a leader, you want to focus on inspiring vision and hope, and then give guidance and support along the way.

    Originally Posted By: indigo
    It has been my understanding that the sandwich method of presenting constructive criticism came from anecdotes, observation, and lived experience, not from scientific research studies, therefore would not have measures such as "validity" and "reliability" attached to it.

    I mean that I am in doubt that it is a valid and/or reliable method for giving effective criticism. It may be no more effective than giving no criticism at all, or worse, or as effective as only giving the negative criticism (in which case that would be more efficient), et cetera. I am against applying practices that have not been properly tested, as there is no telling if they cause more harm than good. I apologize for not being clear.

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    #223148 - 10/03/15 08:31 AM Re: criticism and emotional intensity [Re: aeh]
    indigo Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/27/13
    Posts: 4922
    Originally Posted By: aeh
    ... balance of feedback... spontaneous assurances of affection, without strings attached. It's not so much that the constructive criticism is bracketed by praise, but that the context of our relationship is positive and supportive.
    Agreed. smile Keeping lines of communication open and generally positive and balanced provides a context in which coaching and constructive criticisms are not necessarily difficult conversations.

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    #223150 - 10/03/15 08:45 AM Re: criticism and emotional intensity [Re: indigo]
    Nyaanyaa Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/25/15
    Posts: 64
    Originally Posted By: indigo
    From the linked paper (which is focused on management and organizational behavior, not specifically child development) [...]


    Leadership—not management. A parent is (hopefully) a leader to their child. Organizations include dyads—relationships between two individuals, such as between a parent and their child. PEA–NEA theory is grounded in research from both neuroscience and psychology.

    Here is a paper that goes more into the neuroscience underlying PEA–NEA theory, Boyatzis et al. again: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3941086/.

    The paper contains colorfully mapped models of the brain, so it must be true. smile

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    #223151 - 10/03/15 08:56 AM Re: criticism and emotional intensity [Re: Nyaanyaa]
    eco21268 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/21/15
    Posts: 647
    Originally Posted By: Nyaanyaa
    The paper contains colorfully mapped models of the brain, so it must be true.

    Best evidence ever, love this.

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    #223153 - 10/03/15 09:05 AM Re: criticism and emotional intensity [Re: Nyaanyaa]
    indigo Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/27/13
    Posts: 4922
    Originally Posted By: Nyaanyaa
    Leadership—not management.
    Both are prominently mentioned. Leadership is the 15th word in the paper's title, management is the 9th word in the body of the paper. smile

    My point was that the linked theory was not focused on child development. Possibly the thread is beginning to stray from the OP's request on coaching her DD8, when that involves constructive criticism? I'd not want to contribute to hijacking a thread... possibly a new thread could be started for leadership theory?

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    #223156 - 10/03/15 09:19 AM Re: criticism and emotional intensity [Re: Pinecroft]
    Nyaanyaa Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/25/15
    Posts: 64
    I stand corrected! smile It has been a while since I have read the article. Boyatzis in his online lectures and in email conversations generally made sure to distinguish between leadership and management. A manager should be a leader, but not always is. Leadership he defines as a relationship. In any relationship there is an opportunity for a leader to emerge. Sometimes—like in a romantic relationship—there can be multiple leaders who lead the organization (e.g., the family) together.

    The reason he discusses primarily implications for leadership and organizational behavior in his articles, I presume, is that he is a professor of organizational behavior who teaches leadership.

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    #223157 - 10/03/15 09:35 AM Re: criticism and emotional intensity [Re: Pinecroft]
    Nyaanyaa Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/25/15
    Posts: 64
    Originally Posted By: indigo
    My point was that the linked theory was not focused on child development. Possibly the thread is beginning to stray from the OP's request on coaching her DD8, when that involves constructive criticism? I'd not want to contribute to hijacking a thread... possibly a new thread could be started for leadership theory?

    I apologize. I often consider connections obvious that probably aren't.

    The OP's request concerns constructive criticism on behavior with the goal to change the behavior. Intentional change theory concerns sustained desired behavior change in individuals—including children. It offers a theoretical model to discuss achieving the desired goal.

    The OP's request concerns parenting. Parenting is leadership.

    The OP's request concerns the child's emotional reaction to criticism. PEA–NEA theory concerns the opposing emotional attractors, what activates them, how to activate the PEA rather than the NEA, what implications being in the PEA or NEA has, and offers supplemental information for intentional change theory—which, again, offers a theoretical model to discuss achieving the OP's desired goal.

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