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    #223 - 06/13/06 02:22 AM dyspraxia and hi iq -- newbie intro and ?s
    willagayle Offline
    Member

    Registered: 06/08/06
    Posts: 400
    Loc: Minnesota
    Last week, on the very last day of school, of course, the school district psychologist were informed us that our son is very
    gifted. We were also told he had a severe
    neuromotor disorder. We were shocked. We knew
    he was bright but didn't think anything of it.
    We had been told he had dyspraxia (developmental
    coordination disorder) and had been told he would
    always be a clumsy kid. We never knew it could have such a severe impact on his written expressive abilities or learning. It was masking a "very superior" intelligence (probably even higher according to the District psychologist).

    We did keep telling his teachers he seemed brighter to us than they were perceiving him.
    They kept placing him in the middle to middle low
    groups for reading and math and classrom placement. We did keep telling them that his dyspraxia and dysgraphia (a handwriting disorder
    also diagnosed) was effecting his performance, but even we didn't know how much. Of course, the
    teachers dismissed our comments.

    About 4 months ago his 2nd grade teacher told us
    he was exhibiting "attention" problems. We asked in writing for a full evaluation. The district
    refused. We called in our state special ed advocacy board and they forced the district to comply with Wright's Law that says when parents request testing it must be done.

    So, they tested and were shocked and excited (phbt!) about their findings.

    Now we move on. Their plans are to place him in the gifted cluster in 3rd grade. We agree with the placement; however, we are concerned that with
    nearly 2 years spent at lower levels in reading and math, he will experience knowledge gaps.

    How do we address that?

    Next, for the dyspraxia, it was discovered that he had severe neuromotor impairment and as such (as we knew) cannot write with the speed and efficiency of his age-group peers. So, the district plans on providing several assistive means of expression into place. They are going to provide a scribe for some of the writing tasks. They are going to provide an oral word processor for most of his day. In special education interventions outside of the classroom, they will address his writing delays.

    So...next question...do you think this will work? The little guy is very high in social skills and is described as "sociable...pleasant...charming...caring...and kind" by his teachers and evaluators. He's going to be distraught by the interventions and their inevitable social implications with his peers.

    The district said we would get back together for an IEP meeting in late August, but in the meantime, we are trying to find help and resources for the lad. We're grasping for help.

    Any suggestions?

    D-
    _________________________
    Willa Gayle

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    #224 - 06/16/06 02:14 AM Re: dyspraxia and hi iq -- newbie intro and ?s
    Grinity Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/13/05
    Posts: 7207
    Loc: Connecticut
    Dear Willa -

    Step One: Relax
    Step Two: If you hunt through here for my posts you'll see that I've faced very similar issues.
    Step Three: Don't worry about gaps - DS9's gaps from 1st and 2nd grade help save his samity in 3rd grade to give him the best year ever. As you get used to having a kid with "very superior" scores, you'll come to treasure gaps!
    Step Four: Call your insurance company and get some private OT started, ASAP. If your school offers OT/PT services at all, see if you can get that added to the plan. This is a big bang for your buck/time area.
    Step Five: Take a hard look at your financial picture. consider talking to a financal consultant. I estimate that within 3 years you have a 75% chance of wanting a private school, so see what steps you can take now to ease things later.
    Step Six: Apply to Davidson's Young Scholars Program


    BTW I didn't understand that "very superior" IQ scores meant. What I came to understand is that IQ scores measure how rare it is for a child to score the way your child did. "Very superior" means that your child scored the way 1 our of a thousand do. It also means that your child could be more unusual than that, but that the test can't measure it because your child "hit the ceiling."

    As far as the "severe neuromotor disorder" and the attention problems - keep an open mind - the ability of your local folks to understand you son's picture is limited. OTOH, it sounds like they are giving him resources, which is great.

    The biggesst measure of how your kid is doing, is how your kid is feeling. If he's sociable...pleasant...charming...caring...and kind then for now things, things are ok - unless you think he's faking everyone out.

    BTW - a delicate and gentle push into touch typing will eventually open a lot of doors. I'd limit screen-time as much as possible so that you can "allow" mavis beacon, transcribed emails to cousins and grandparents, etc.

    Best wishes
    Trinity
    _________________________
    Coaching available, at SchoolSuccessSolutions.com

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    #225 - 06/16/06 04:43 AM Re: dyspraxia and hi iq -- newbie intro and ?s
    willagayle Offline
    Member

    Registered: 06/08/06
    Posts: 400
    Loc: Minnesota
    Thanks for the informative reply. It gives me some things on which to focus.

    "Very superior" meant a 136 on VCI section of the WISC-IV, however, because of his fine motor (handwriting and such) impairment, the other subtests may have been invalid. Also, the psychologist said he felt his FSIQ is in the same range, but that both were probably even higher than "very superior" He may be "profoundly gifted".

    We need to find a way to evaluate him that doesn't use handwriting. How do they evaluate kids with no hands?

    He scored significantly higher on the PRI subtest that did not involve writing or fine motor skills...even moving the blocks around was very difficult for him and he scored so low on that subtest that the difference between his scores statistically occurs in 1 in 10,000 to 1 in 100,000. However, he could verbalize what he wanted to do.

    Finances....gosh...none to even consider! This is so scary.
    _________________________
    Willa Gayle

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    #226 - 06/16/06 05:04 AM Re: dyspraxia and hi iq -- newbie intro and ?s
    willagayle Offline
    Member

    Registered: 06/08/06
    Posts: 400
    Loc: Minnesota
    Ok. I looked at the YS program. He wouldn't qualify because his VCI is in the 99th percentile, not the 99.9.

    sigh. help just 4 points away so close so close and yet so far
    _________________________
    Willa Gayle

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    #227 - 06/19/06 01:11 AM Re: dyspraxia and hi iq -- newbie intro and ?s
    mayreeh Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/20/06
    Posts: 156
    Loc: AL
    Did he hit the ceiling on any of the verbal subtests? If so, I would apply anyway. Not saying for sure that they would take him, but my understanding is that they look at all the evidence. If the motor skills were severe enough to account for the problem, then that might weigh into the solution.

    Besides, I have also heard that even if rejected from the program that they will still try to help you find some useful information.

    My story - DS has motor skills problems, but not as bad, I think, as what you are seeing. We learned this from a pediatric neuropsychologist who evaluated him recently. Among other things, she did specific attention measuring tests to rule out the ADHD issue.

    One thing she mentioned to us was that the only place in the DSM used by psychs where gifted is mentioned is ADHD. Specifically, that you cannot diagnose ADHD based on behavior in a gifted kids whose academic needs aren't being met. I suggest the book 'Misdiagnosis and Dual Diagnosis of Gifted Children'. There is a great chapter on things that are normal in gifted children and another great chapter on ADHD and how can you tell the difference between this and gifted. Very powerful information for you to have in your knowledge base.

    Now... venturing into the realm of personal opinion and things that may not be appropriate for your child or your situation....

    We had a long talk with our son. Talked about his intelligence and his motor skills. Talked about ways in which he was just like every other kid. Talked about ways in which he was different - and talked about how other kids might react to those differences. How he might handle their reactions. Etc. It seemed to help him a lot in dealing with the stress of being different.

    In his case, he went from a kindergarten classroom, to second grade (skipped a full grade), but with fourth grade math and science. Talk about gaps. Funny thing is, the gaps just made things more interesting. He learns so fast and so deeply that if he starts at the same level as the other kids, he is SO bored.... If he starts with some gaps, he still pulls A's, but has to put forth a little effort.

    As Trinity said.... you come to treasure the gaps.

    He got a lot of comments at the beginning of the year from kids with 'what are you doing in here' stuff. His response was 'The principal said for me to come here.' He stuck to his response and the questions disappeared after a month. By mid-year, the other kids had figured out that he was really smart and that was the reason - but he never said anything about it.

    As for filling in blanks - yes, good to limit screen time, but computers are such a great tool. Can you find good learning software that your son can handle with is motor skills? Something that might work well to engage his brain? My DS thinks it is hilarious that sometimes when he is behaving badly, I send him to the computer to do a hour of something really mentally challenging. However, it often seems to work better than any normal type of discipline. He has a need for mental stimulation and if it isn't met, he can't entirely help it if he is a pain in the neck....

    Mary
    _________________________
    Mary

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    #228 - 06/19/06 01:55 AM Re: dyspraxia and hi iq -- newbie intro and ?s
    Grinity Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/13/05
    Posts: 7207
    Loc: Connecticut
    Well Done Willa Gayle - You're on your way.
    I'm glad I could help. Ask more as more question crop up.

    I notice you didn't post about the OT/PT route - is it an oversight or "just too painful?" (LOL - I wonder where my son gets his social skill's deficite from?)

    Smiles and winks-
    Trinity
    _________________________
    Coaching available, at SchoolSuccessSolutions.com

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    #229 - 06/20/06 05:08 AM Re: dyspraxia and hi iq -- newbie intro and ?s
    willagayle Offline
    Member

    Registered: 06/08/06
    Posts: 400
    Loc: Minnesota
    Oh. I'm sorry I didn't respond to the OT/PT stuff. I will ask about that. He did 1.5 years of OT through private pay. That was prior to our knowing about the extent of his problem. Anyhow, it maxed out our private pay options.

    Mary thanks for the suggestions. I'll check into them. Do you think at kid with a VCI of 136 should be skipped a grade or two? I know he reads, to himself, much better than he reads aloud and they judge his reading ability by oral fluency. I think his impairment might actually be involved in his getting significantly low scores in fluency (reads aloud at 6.1 years age equivalent, but reading comprehension when reading to himself is at 12.9 grade equivalent-- 17 some years age equivalent). I think with proper stimulation it would be higher than that even.
    _________________________
    Willa Gayle

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    #230 - 06/23/06 07:25 AM Re: dyspraxia and hi iq -- newbie intro and ?s
    willagayle Offline
    Member

    Registered: 06/08/06
    Posts: 400
    Loc: Minnesota
    Ok. His mean in comprehension was 17. In the other two VCI subscales they were 15 and 18. Apparently, the comprehension score was high enough to pull all the scores up to 99th for the VCI result.

    Does that 17 look like a ceiling for his age at the time (8.4 months)? I've seen it said that is 3 standard deviations above the mean.
    _________________________
    Willa Gayle

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    #231 - 06/23/06 07:26 AM Re: dyspraxia and hi iq -- newbie intro and ?s
    willagayle Offline
    Member

    Registered: 06/08/06
    Posts: 400
    Loc: Minnesota
    Where can we get more information about what the ceilings are on each subscale? I've googled and found quite a bit, but nothing that specifically gives that info.
    _________________________
    Willa Gayle

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    #232 - 06/23/06 07:31 AM Re: dyspraxia and hi iq -- newbie intro and ?s
    willagayle Offline
    Member

    Registered: 06/08/06
    Posts: 400
    Loc: Minnesota
    you know, if the test was administered in such a way that his verbal comprehension subtests came after intense fine motor subtests on the other indexes, then it would seem possible that the score is even higher.

    Right at the end of the evaluation support, the psychologist and special ed person both said that they felt all the scores would be significantly higher had the impairment of his hands not interfered.
    _________________________
    Willa Gayle

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