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    #222924 - 09/28/15 07:04 AM Re: Uncelebrated college cost driver - the lazy river [Re: bluemagic]
    Dude Offline
    Member

    Registered: 10/04/11
    Posts: 2856
    Originally Posted By: bluemagic
    And yes it is adding to the cost of college but this is only one is a long line of reasons that price of college is rising. I watched a movie that claimed that the biggest contributor to this is the building of new building on campus and the rise in administrators for the same number of faculty/students as being more at fault.


    I'm pretty sure these lavish athletic/leisure buildings qualify under "new building on campus," especially when you consider the design/construction costs on a lazy river, plus ongoing maintenance. Add in the fact that they contribute nothing to the purported mission of an institution of higher learning (unless the mission is to learn to get high?), and what we're really talking about here is a symbol of just how badly mismanaged our public educational resources have become.

    Nobody is saying schools shouldn't have fitness centers (though maybe it's time someone SHOULD), but it can be done in a cost-controlled manner (free weights don't cost much to maintain, after all, and cost provisions for intramural sports often means cutting the grass). These schools are doing it the other way. It's emblematic of the overall problem, because it becomes a game of one-upping the competition, and the Cold War showed us all how that works out.

    It's hard to climb the national joke that are the college rankings by improving your technology department, because what makes one institution "better" at teaching is largely a manner of opinion. So why spend $10m on that, when you can build a $60m facility and see instant results?

    Oh, wait, UCF already has a $60m facility? We'll spend $80m!!

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    #222932 - 09/28/15 10:56 AM Re: Uncelebrated college cost driver - the lazy river [Re: Bostonian]
    raptor_dad Offline
    Member

    Registered: 03/21/12
    Posts: 100
    Loc: Minnesota
    Originally Posted By: Bostonian
    Originally Posted By: cmguy
    Just wanted to give a shout out for Deep Springs College. This is a 2 year college where students work 20 hours/week running a ranch. (And as far as I can tell they don't have a lazy river). (and it could be a good choice for some gifted students?). 20 hours of ranch work per week is probably a great stress reducer.

    Traditionally, people have moved to cities and sent their children to college so that they would NOT have to do farm work or a lot of physical labor in general.


    Yet Americorps, the Peace Corps, and Outward Bound type programs are popular with affluent families at a higher rate than population baseline...

    At least when I looked at it 25yo ago, Deep Springs sent most of the grads to the Ivies or highly selective LACs... So perhaps viewing it as a ultra-small classically focused LAC combined with a 2year Outward Bound program could explain both its appeal and success.

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    #222934 - 09/28/15 11:28 AM Re: Uncelebrated college cost driver - the lazy river [Re: Dude]
    Val Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/01/07
    Posts: 3296
    Loc: California
    I just forwarded a link to Deep Springs College to my 15-year-old son.

    Wow.

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    #222935 - 09/28/15 11:29 AM Re: Uncelebrated college cost driver - the lazy river [Re: cmguy]
    bluemagic Offline
    Member

    Registered: 03/29/13
    Posts: 1489
    Originally Posted By: cmguy
    Just wanted to give a shout out for Deep Springs College. This is a 2 year college where students work 20 hours/week running a ranch. (And as far as I can tell they don't have a lazy river). (and it could be a good choice for some gifted students?). 20 hours of ranch work per week is probably a great stress reducer.

    It is men only - but maybe there are other schools that follow this "anti-lazy river" model? It seems like an interesting way to go.

    I don't think most of the Ivy's or top tier schools have lazy rivers. I know Harvard, Stanford, etc do not. But that isn't to say that don't have other lavish things. Deep Springs is small and very unique and only for a select type of student. Takes a student who WANT to attend this type of alternative college.

    What about football teams. Football teams have little to do with academia. Cost huge amounts of money, lavish new stadiums are being build that often displace other athletics. Huge amounts of money is made on College Football that don't help the students. I'm not sure how students can study who are on the teams. Is going to a football game relaxing, stress reducing? Not sure I see what the advantage is for universities, professors and students.

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    #222938 - 09/28/15 01:28 PM Re: Uncelebrated college cost driver - the lazy river [Re: bluemagic]
    Dude Offline
    Member

    Registered: 10/04/11
    Posts: 2856
    Originally Posted By: bluemagic
    I don't think most of the Ivy's or top tier schools have lazy rivers. I know Harvard, Stanford, etc do not.

    Berkeley is #29 on that "best college pools" list.

    Originally Posted By: bluemagic
    What about football teams. Football teams have little to do with academia. Cost huge amounts of money, lavish new stadiums are being build that often displace other athletics. Huge amounts of money is made on College Football that don't help the students. I'm not sure how students can study who are on the teams. Is going to a football game relaxing, stress reducing? Not sure I see what the advantage is for universities, professors and students.


    I can't find the convo at the moment, but there was one years back in which we evaluated information that showed athletic departments as a whole are a money sink for all but about seven NCAA Division I schools.

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    #222939 - 09/28/15 02:08 PM Re: Uncelebrated college cost driver - the lazy river [Re: Dude]
    JonLaw Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/29/11
    Posts: 2007
    Loc: The Sub-Tropics

    When you have an significant influx of loot from the imperial provinces, you build thermae.

    I'm not sure why this is a cause for concern.

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    #222940 - 09/28/15 02:19 PM Re: Uncelebrated college cost driver - the lazy river [Re: JonLaw]
    aeh Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/26/14
    Posts: 3990
    I was really waiting for JonLaw to weigh in.

    Now I feel all better.
    _________________________
    ...pronounced like the long vowel and first letter of the alphabet...

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    #222941 - 09/28/15 02:58 PM Re: Uncelebrated college cost driver - the lazy river [Re: Dude]
    aquinas Offline
    Member

    Registered: 11/02/12
    Posts: 2513
    It's all about the prospects for JOB$*, people! Where else can you sample your country club tennis whites without being mobbed by the plebs as you network with recruiters by the smoothie bar between sets? This conversation is so pedestrian. Most of the facilities listed don't even have publicist boxes.

    *TM
    _________________________
    What is to give light must endure burning.

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    #222947 - 09/29/15 06:50 AM Re: Uncelebrated college cost driver - the lazy river [Re: raptor_dad]
    cmguy Offline
    Member

    Registered: 03/30/14
    Posts: 387
    Originally Posted By: raptor_dad
    Originally Posted By: Bostonian
    Originally Posted By: cmguy
    Just wanted to give a shout out for Deep Springs College. This is a 2 year college where students work 20 hours/week running a ranch. (And as far as I can tell they don't have a lazy river). (and it could be a good choice for some gifted students?). 20 hours of ranch work per week is probably a great stress reducer.

    Traditionally, people have moved to cities and sent their children to college so that they would NOT have to do farm work or a lot of physical labor in general.


    Yet Americorps, the Peace Corps, and Outward Bound type programs are popular with affluent families at a higher rate than population baseline...

    At least when I looked at it 25yo ago, Deep Springs sent most of the grads to the Ivies or highly selective LACs... So perhaps viewing it as a ultra-small classically focused LAC combined with a 2year Outward Bound program could explain both its appeal and success.


    I don't think I mentioned before that Deep Springs is free too (students do pay for books and incidentals). So a student can get 2 years of Ivy level education (retail price $50k?) at more or less zero cost.

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    #222948 - 09/29/15 08:29 AM Re: Uncelebrated college cost driver - the lazy river [Re: Dude]
    ultramarina Offline
    Member

    Registered: 08/24/10
    Posts: 3428
    When I went back to my alma mater (private liberal arts college in the top 20, sticker price about $55K, I think?) for a reunion, I sort of expected to see some fancy facilities or at least updated dorms. I currently live in a big university town where multi million dollar complexes go up all the time and student housing is very nice indeed, so I have something to compare to. Instead, the dorms seemed exactly the same--spartan by any standard--and there was still nothing to write home about for athletic facilities, though it was better than when I was there. There was a new science building that looked nice. I believe they also have a new music facility. Honestly, I was pleased by this, but if the "money" is going to facilities, it isn't at that campus. Which makes one wonder where it is going. I'd like to think it's to need-blind admissions...

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