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    #221743 - 09/02/15 08:12 PM Vent-Two days in and I am done with public school
    Laurie918 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 11/10/12
    Posts: 83
    Loc: Redmond, WA
    I know I am not the only one who has read news lately about how kids need to be able to move to learn. Second day of school (public, not gifted), my 10yo twin daughters come home with a pamphlet called "Classroom procedures" which outlines all the rules of the classroom. It is 5 full sides of pages (not including the title page). When I asked my 2e twin daughter what "quiet club" meant, she said that if they did not turn in their homework or were misbehaving in class (5th grade), that they would miss recess. She is PG, ADHD, and other problems. Keeping her in from recess is exactly not what is in her best interest (nor the teachers). I know that teachers need to have rules but IMO taking away recess is never an option for addressing behaviour issues. We don't have our IEP meeting for 3 weeks and I will have an ulcer by then. This is just causing me so much heartache. Sorry for the vent but the past 6months have been so stressful with their PG, dyslexia, etc diagnoses and I was so hoping that with an experienced teacher, they would get it. Apparently not. frown Ok, gonna go cry in my pillow now. Thanks for listening.

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    #221745 - 09/02/15 08:37 PM Re: Vent-Two days in and I am done with public school [Re: Laurie918]
    FruityDragons Offline
    Member

    Registered: 10/09/14
    Posts: 105
    Loc: Midwest USA
    Oh, no...that's horrible -- especially since the lack of recess = behavior/focus issues = quite the vicious cycle! :-(
    Are there any other teachers/classrooms your kids can switch into? Or, maybe you could talk to the teacher -- sometimes they are actually willing to listen to parent concerns in the first few days of class, especially if you can produce some sort of unofficial note before the IEP comes in. Perhaps you could have her do work before or after school if necessary, and go to the gym instead of recess -- still no fun, but she does the work and gets necessary exercise. Or hopefully the policies are fairly lax, or at least flexible if needed. Hang in there!

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    #221747 - 09/02/15 09:09 PM Re: Vent-Two days in and I am done with public school [Re: Laurie918]
    suevv Offline
    Member

    Registered: 08/10/12
    Posts: 381
    Check Washington law. In CA there is a law that says kids cannot be kept in at recess for discipline purposes.

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    #221748 - 09/02/15 10:21 PM Re: Vent-Two days in and I am done with public school [Re: Laurie918]
    Nautigal Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/22/09
    Posts: 1032
    Oh, dear. There's a policy that's bound to backfire, and not just for your DD. How can they not see that the more they make kids sit still, the wigglier they're going to get?

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    #221751 - 09/03/15 12:59 AM Re: Vent-Two days in and I am done with public school [Re: Laurie918]
    polarbear Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/29/11
    Posts: 3363
    Originally Posted By: Laurie918
    I know that teachers need to have rules but IMO taking away recess is never an option for addressing behaviour issues. We don't have our IEP meeting for 3 weeks and I will have an ulcer by then. This is just causing me so much heartache.


    I'd talk to the teacher. Does she have any info about your dd and her recent diagnoses? Try to remember that the policy she's passing out is for the "typical" students in her classroom - in a few weeks you'll be having your IEP meeting and you can use this policy to advocate for putting language in the IEP accommodations to make sure this *doesn't* happen to your dd. In the meantime, unless you've had previous conversations that indicate otherwise, I'd go in to talk to the teacher tomorrow and explain that taking away recess is counter-productive for your dd. I wouldn't make any comments about how it never works for behavioral issues or it's not appropriate for any student, I'd just stick to the situation you're advocating for - your dd's education.

    If you talk to the teacher and she is rigid about the policy, I'd then talk directly to the SPED coordinator in your building and ask for their advice re how to handle the situation while you are technically in "IEP limbo". You can also call an emergency team meeting to discuss (would include the same people who are coming to your IEP team meeting - I don't know what the meeting would be called where you are at, but in our district this type of meeting *before* a student has an IEP, is referred to as a "Student Services Team" meeting.

    I also don't know if this will help, but we had the same thing happen early in the school year the same year our ds was waiting to qualify for his IEP. I talked to the teacher, she didn't "get it" right away, but she was willing to let our ds use a different approach which I suggested as a "meet us halfway" type of concession - I can't remember the exact solution, but explained the challenge and what happened when recess was taken away (including negative impacts at home), and in place of the recess situation, I asked that ds always *always* be allowed to participate in recess, and that the work he sent be sent home with him and I'd oversee to make sure he finished it.

    Best wishes,

    polarbear

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    #221752 - 09/03/15 02:46 AM Re: Vent-Two days in and I am done with public school [Re: Laurie918]
    Pemberley Offline
    Member

    Registered: 08/07/11
    Posts: 734
    I've heard that spec Ed parents develop a form of PTSD from advocating for our kids - your post has given me major flashbacks...

    I spent 3 1/2 years trying to get my DD evaluated for fine motor/ hand-eye coordination issues and finally got her enrolled in OT a few months before kindergarten. Before school started I sent the teacher paperwork about her fine motor deficit, explained that she was in OT trying to learn to hold a pencil and requesting that she be evaluated for in school services. I didn't know then about all the proper procedures and protocols. I just figured everyone would be on the same page about trying to get a smart, cheerful, enthusiastic kid off to a good start in school. HAHAHAHA....

    Not only was it impossible to get her evaluated for any in school services (I was repeatedly told "She'd never qualify for services - she's too smart") the K teacher actively punished her for her disability. "If she doesn't complete the writing assignment she doesn't go to recess. Period." I would explain that she was in OT learning to hold a pencil and physically couldn't complete the writing assignment only to be told "If she doesn't have an IEP or a 504 and she doesn't complete the writing assignment she doesn't go to recess. Period." I would then ask again about getting her screened and would again be told "She'd never qualify for services - she's too smart." Lather, rinse, repeat.

    Ironically we had this "discussion" because DD did not write the sentence "My teacher helps me."

    There was *no* way to get through to this teacher. None. She was young - had taught for 3 years and was sure she knew it ALL. Everything was about behavior and defiance. These kids had to be broken and she was the one to break them. DD was in that classroom a month before I was able to get her moved but the impact lasted years. She didn't qualify for the "disorder" part of PTSD but spent several years being treated for the post traumatic stress part. Her school anxiety was finally contained years later after being placed OOD in a school that specializes in dealing with anxiety. (She's there because of profound LD issues but also has an anxiety component to her IEP. All starting with this terrible kindergarten experience.)

    Not that I am saying your 5th graders are in the same situation only to say that I totally sympathize. Based on my experience I would say yes, talk to the teacher. If she doesn't get it go *immediately* over her head. I can't emphasize *immediately* enough. I went to the vice principal and school psych. We had an emergency meeting where they instructed this teacher not to do this. It worked for about a week and then she went back to her old ways but was even harder on DD. We were able to change her classroom but the damage had already been done.

    Sorry for my own vent but as I said your situation triggered my spec Ed PTSD. I assume your situation will be resolved more appropriately. But please do not wait 3 weeks to address the problem.

    Good luck!

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    #221761 - 09/03/15 06:19 AM Re: Vent-Two days in and I am done with public school [Re: Pemberley]
    eco21268 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/21/15
    Posts: 647
    Originally Posted By: Pemberley

    There was *no* way to get through to this teacher. None. She was young - had taught for 3 years and was sure she knew it ALL. Everything was about behavior and defiance. These kids had to be broken and she was the one to break them. DD was in that classroom a month before I was able to get her moved but the impact lasted years. She didn't qualify for the "disorder" part of PTSD but spent several years being treated for the post traumatic stress part. Her school anxiety was finally contained years later after being placed OOD in a school that specializes in dealing with anxiety. (She's there because of profound LD issues but also has an anxiety component to her IEP. All starting with this terrible kindergarten experience.)

    Not that I am saying your 5th graders are in the same situation only to say that I totally sympathize. Based on my experience I would say yes, talk to the teacher. If she doesn't get it go *immediately* over her head. I can't emphasize *immediately* enough. I went to the vice principal and school psych. We had an emergency meeting where they instructed this teacher not to do this. It worked for about a week and then she went back to her old ways but was even harder on DD. We were able to change her classroom but the damage had already been done.

    Sorry for my own vent but as I said your situation triggered my spec Ed PTSD. I assume your situation will be resolved more appropriately. But please do not wait 3 weeks to address the problem.

    Good luck!

    ITA. Maybe the teacher will understand, but you'll need to know ASAP if she doesn't and solve the problem.

    Also: I think the Spec Ed PTSD should be a new DSM dx. I can't think of anything more troubling than sending one's DC into what feels like a hostile environment, daily. It's so preoccupying--and hard to relax, focus on other life areas, and feel happy/generally content when school is a constant worry.

    Please keep us updated. Sending lots of support your way.

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    #221764 - 09/03/15 06:50 AM Re: Vent-Two days in and I am done with public school [Re: Laurie918]
    ConnectingDots Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/06/13
    Posts: 848
    Maybe this is helpful... depending upon how you want to handle things with the school.
    http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2015/04/15/withholding-recess-as-discipline-declining.html

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    #221765 - 09/03/15 06:58 AM Re: Vent-Two days in and I am done with public school [Re: Laurie918]
    howdy Offline
    Member

    Registered: 10/04/13
    Posts: 279
    Does anyone have any ideas on what alternatives there are to recess detention? I still see these types of detention in our schools too.

    To the OP, one thing I have noticed is that the first couple days of school can be very stressful for children. They are BOMBARDED with the rules from each classroom that they go to, and it seems like teachers really lay it on thick to try to be serious about it. I wish that this year I had warned my kids about this so they would have had a better first day. If they knew that it was just something the teachers HAD to do at the beginning of the year, I think they would be less stressed about it.


    Edited by howdy (09/03/15 06:58 AM)

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    #221770 - 09/03/15 07:50 AM Re: Vent-Two days in and I am done with public school [Re: howdy]
    ConnectingDots Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/06/13
    Posts: 848
    Originally Posted By: howdy
    Does anyone have any ideas on what alternatives there are to recess detention? I still see these types of detention in our schools too.

    To the OP, one thing I have noticed is that the first couple days of school can be very stressful for children. They are BOMBARDED with the rules from each classroom that they go to, and it seems like teachers really lay it on thick to try to be serious about it. I wish that this year I had warned my kids about this so they would have had a better first day. If they knew that it was just something the teachers HAD to do at the beginning of the year, I think they would be less stressed about it.


    Agreed re: teachers coming down harder at the beginning of the year. I have tried to let our kids know to expect this, and also to know that they should be especially careful to follow classroom rules at the start (not that they can break them later, but that they need to make a good first impression).

    Came across this article, which seems pretty logical to me. Caveat, I'm not a teacher, although I'm from a family of teachers.

    http://www.nea.org/tools/10-approaches-to-better-discipline.html

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