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    Joined: Mar 2014
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    _Angie_ Offline OP
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    Our son did private testing (WPPSI-IV and some WJ-IV subtests) when he was 4 years 11 months. He just started K last week and I'm wondering what (if anything) to do with these tests wrt the school.

    His scores were good but not off the charts. They were pretty consistent across the board with an average processing speed and lower working memory, which pulled down the scores. I'm not even sure how to summarize these and it's been about 8 months so I forget how to interpret them too a little (sorry!) but maybe this will be useful:

    (Scale, Composite Score, Percentile Rank)

    Verbal Comprehension (VCI) 126 96
    Visual Spatial Index (VSI) 132 98
    Fluid Reasoning Index (FRI) 136 99
    Working Memory Index (WMI) 124 95
    Processing Speed Index (PSI) 94 34
    Full Scale IQ 129
    General Ability Index (GAI) 133 99
    Cognitive Proficiency Index (CPI) 111 77

    So I think the Full Scale IQ of 129 is the usual WPPSI-IV output, but she recommended the GAI of 133 as more accurate, given the processing speed and working memory scores.

    These are the WJ-IV scores:

    (Subtest/Composite, Standard Score, Percentile Rank, Grade Equivalent)

    Reading 135 99 1.6
    Mathematics 132 98 1.3
    Written Language 126 96 1.0

    Academic Skills 135 99 1.3
    Academic Applications 130 98 1.3

    Keeping in mind that these scores were 1/2 way through Pre-K and that he's had an extra 8 months of growth, I think it's clear he's capable of doing higher than K level work.

    However, the WPPSI-IV scores don't seem that high to me - and it seems like they have a higher threshold that needs to be met for receiving any gifted services in K-3 in my district (required to be working 2-3 years ahead).

    Would you share these scores with your kid's school?
    Other options would be to nominate him for testing through the school at some point and then he'd have to repeat testing.
    Or he could wait until third grade and the typical identification cycle.

    Right now he's doing an immersion program and I've decided to afterschool him in math, so I feel like we have an okay plan for K. He will have a lot of adjusting to make and his fine motor came along slowly, so he's still learning to write lower case letters.

    Thanks in advance for any help. Meanwhile I will also read up on the advocacy tips here...

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    Using GAI as a more accurate measure of ability is pretty common, particularly since lower WMI and PSI scores are extremely prevalent amongst gifted kids. (A 124 on WMI is above average, by the way.) A GAI of 133 is an excellent score and should be enough to qualify him for most gifted programs.

    I'm not sure why you seem concerned with him not being "off the charts." If anything, this should make your advocacy needs less intense. smile

    Does the school have a gifted coordinator or advisor to his K classroom? Sitting down with them and his teacher to have a proactive conversation is a good idea. Find out if they do in-classroom differentiation and what exactly that means. Then, as the year progresses, ask your son if he feels like he is learning and being challenged in class. (Ours flat out told us that he wasn't learning anything, even with differentiation.)

    There shouldn't be a reason to keep WPPSI results to yourself, as the test is well respected by most institutions and should carry enough weight to grab the attention of educators. Plus, giftedness can have many different faces is often not spotted by teachers (they have plenty else to worry about)... so if it calls attention to special needs for your child, so much the better.

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    _Angie_ Offline OP
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    Thanks for the quick reply!

    I guess what I mean by not off the charts is that it may not be obvious that he needs to be qualified for AIG in K-3, because he's right at the cut off. I just think it makes the communication with the school a little trickier?!

    So I'm a little nervous to share the scores if they aren't enough to qualify him for services, in case they cause problems working with the school or the teachers for some reason. I don't want to start off on the wrong foot with the new school.

    I finally (it took hours -- ridiculous) found the qualifying scores needed for K-3 AIG identification in our district -- it's 98%. In this case the GAI would work if they take it but not the FSIQ. The achievement tests are fine I think (depends on how writing is folded in -- strange for a young 5 year old!)

    One he gets to 3rd grade it's 95%, which he should easily pass, but I do think he'll really benefit from services in 1st grade so I don't want to wait that long if I can avoid it.

    The school does have a gifted coordinator. I'm supposed to contact the teacher first and then her. I feel more appropriate talking to the coordinator directly, but I want to follow their process.

    And yes my sentence about WMI was confusing, sorry! WMI is above average but lower than the rest of his scores, so it pulled the FSIQ down some.

    I suppose even if I share them and he just misses the cut off, there will be value in making the teacher/AIG coordinator/etc aware of where he's at...

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    Originally Posted by _Angie_
    I guess what I mean by not off the charts is that it may not be obvious that he needs to be qualified for AIG in K-3, because he's right at the cut off.
    What criteria does the school use for "the cutoff"? Requiring an FSIQ of 130 (and not allowing GAI) seems unusually high.

    So that you know, the National Association for Gifted Children has issued a position statement about using the WISC-IV (the 6+ year old analog to the WPPSI) for gifted placement:
    Quote
    When the WISC-IV is used for the identification of gifted students, either the General
    Ability Index (GAI), which emphasizes reasoning ability, or the Full Scale IQ Score (FSIQ),
    should be acceptable for selection to gifted programs.
    I don't know whether your school has shaped their policies around this statement, but if they have, it's possible that they would consider WPPSI with the same policy as the WISC. Definitely worth finding out.

    Quote
    One he gets to 3rd grade it's 95%, which he should easily pass, but I do think he'll really benefit from services in 1st grade so I don't want to wait that long if I can avoid it.
    You probably have a good feel for this as his parent, but if you have a conversation with the teacher and/or coordinator, make sure that you frame it in a way that indicates that such a placement is in the best interest of his needs (and isn't perceived by them as "here is this test score; please place my son in your program"). I know that's probably what you are fearing by bringing up the test, but if you bring up the test in the broader context of "I think my kid has some special needs" rather than, "I've come to talk to you about this test score," it would likely be better received. smile

    Best of luck to you!

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    Actually, FSIQ/GAI of 130 is quite reasonable, and has been a conventional standard in many districts for decades. It is, of course, as arbitrary as any other standard, and excludes many children who could benefit from GT programming, but it is what it is...

    Angie, your child's profile is generally quite balanced, which is good for advocacy and programming. Only the PSI is significantly lower, which is not necessarily meaningful in a 4 yo. The WJIV results are strong, but subject to caveats about very young examinees and lower reliability, even more so than the cognitive testing is, meaning it is probably not worthwhile interpreting too deeply, beyond noting that achievement is generally comparable to cognition. Also, as I frequently say, smile grade and age equivalents are not good representations of actual instructional levels, so these scores do not demonstrate that he does or does not perform 2-3 grade levels ahead. Though, if you can use them to convince the school, by all means do so!

    I would agree with George, wrt presenting the information to the school.

    I'll also note that re-testing should be used with care, as he cannot re-test with the WPPSI-IV for two years from his original test date, nor can he test with the WISC-V until he is 6 yo. If you do re-test, it is really best to give the new examiner access to your previous results, or, at a minimum, inform them of what he has had and when, to avoid invalidating results.

    And, FWIW, I doubt the WMI had much impact on the FSIQ, as it is essentially the same as the VCI (together, the VCI and one WMI subtest contribute to half of the FSIQ); it was much more likely the PS score that was responsible.


    ...pronounced like the long vowel and first letter of the alphabet...
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    _Angie_ Offline OP
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    Interesting! So if you can't take the test again for 2 years I wonder if that means they will accept his 4 yr 11 mo results until he's 6 years 11 mos? If so, that would be nice. The policy isn't publicly posted, which is frustrating. One of my concerns is waiting too long to show them his test results and then having to retest him again unnecessarily.

    I do think George is right that they will probably accept the GAI score, which would give him the results to qualify. I think they might have him retake the achievement test portion, though. The tester didn't administer a wide range of subtests because she felt he was too young for most of them, if I remember correctly.

    And also on the retesting, from my point of view I feel like this was an accurate test, so I don't think I'd want him to retake it. I disagree with some of the questions on the WPPSI that are more knowledge about the world types of things for a 5 year old (especially if you live in a portion of the country that doesn't expose you to different things)... can't complain here without giving away too much about the test ;), but if you know the test maybe you will know what I mean. But other than getting those types of questions right after a full year of pre-k/k I don't think his score would really change that much.

    (And yes after seeing a few examples of what he missed on the test I felt I'm raising a very smart child with no common sense. wink We've started talking more about the world around us! But that's a whole different thread!)

    So... the other part of this that's tricky is there really isn't a problem to solve yet. I think his K class will be just fine for him for at least 3 months, maybe 1/2 the year. We do math at home for fun and he consumes books on his own... he sits down and reads for a couple hours without moving. As long as he's having fun, learning something and not unhappy, I think he is fine in the regular classroom. Am I naive?

    He's really excited about multiplication lately and his math lessons will be about counting. Maybe I will see how he handles it?

    The issue I see is when he gets to first grade and he is expected to do more structured academic work. When that is below his level I think he'll be very frustrated and unhappy. In that sense it would be great to know he's already AIG identified and will have support during that time.

    Part of the identification criteria is the 98% scores + something like "a need for differentiated work"... so I feel like I'm asking for differentiation by asking him to be considered. But I feel wrong asking for that when he's had only a week of K.

    I know I'm all over the board here, but does any of this resonate? Maybe it is just a case of me not wanting to draw attention to him or to create more work for people?

    Well... thanks for the input.

    All of the students in the county are assessed in reading the first week. His teacher ran up to me today when I picked him up and was like "It took him two days to even complete the assessment because he got so far. He is reading CHAPTER books!" and seemed excited about it, so that is a great sign. wink They will give us an official print out of his reading level and what he needs to work on. I think that would be a good conversation starter on his gifted testing...




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    _Angie_ Offline OP
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    OKAY. I finally decided to just contact the AIG program office for the (very large) school district. They really want you to go through the schools to ask questions but I took a chance and called the main school system line.

    Should have done that earlier!

    The AIG program office said they definitely take the GAI index or the FSIQ and that 133 is well above the 130 cut off for qualification for K-3 gifted services.

    They said to submit it and it should be straightforward identification, without a lot of additional info provided.

    I feel great about submitting it now.

    Thanks to everyone for the help. I really appreciate it. Will update if there is anything interesting to add later.

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    Angie, that's awesome news! I'm so glad it worked out for you.


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