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For what it's worth, the tester who tested DS8 (who presented with a lot of autism like traits when he was younger, such as rigidity, rituals, anxiety, low coordination, sleep issues, social awkwardness, some mild stimming behaviours, but NOT the central features ie mind blindness and lack of empathy) that many HG+ children appear to have autistic traits because of their extreme need for logic in their lives, which makes them try to apply that logic in all walks of life including emotions and social interactions.
As I understand it, it is not that the intuitive and emotional pathways for understanding social interaction are not accessible for them as they would be for autistic children, but that they prefer trying to make sense of the world using other pathways which they feel more comfortable with. If you look at it like that, it makes sense that they can learn how to apply these other pathways as they mature, which makes them look as if they had outgrown autism.
Experts on this board, I'd love to hear your take on my lay understanding of this!

Autistic people do not lack empathy. It's not part of the definition. Some autistic adults have described their state of mind as having too much empathy-- not being able to process because it's too intense to witness the feelings of others.

Science is still not clear on this one, but it's not a diagnostic feature.

What you describe to me sounds more like an HG+ child who is 2e (with an ASD or maybe dyspraxia). While there are plenty of HG+ 2e kids, there are others (such as my DS) who have never had these traits... who, if anything, trend the other way (highly coordinated, unusually flexible, etc.)

As far as I know, there is no such thing as an emotional pathway for understanding social interaction. Obviously, social interactions come more easily to some kids than others, but that is more likely due to a variety of factors (some of which may be rooted in neurological differences). It is also not uncommon for a child with ASD to "grow out of" autistic traits as they get older and learn to compensate more effectively. But you can't grow out of being autistic any more than you can grow out of being gifted.

When DS9 was younger there were definitely some things that had me wondering a little if he was ASD. Note that I'm not a psychologist so some of the things that made me wonder might be based on inaccurate stereotypes so take it with a grain of salt. In the end he is HG+ (we don't have extended norms here so hard to say how much +) and 2E but his second is in written expression and I no longer suspect ASD (and he's been through 2 full psych ed evaluations and they haven't suspected it either).

Here's some of the things that had me wondering at various points...
- delayed speech - at 2y3m he had less than 10 words (and I use words generously - "meh" was milk) and that was with 8 months of intensive speech therapy... A year and a half later you would have never known it and he was shocking people with his crazy vocabulary though.
- sensory issues (tags on clothes, certain fabrics, etc - he's still pretty picky about this stuff)
- obsessive fascination with topics - dinosaurs, then black holes & particle physics, now he's branched out a lot more
- routines - dropping him off at school up until grade 2 involved a 17 step handshake/wave sequence, it was crazy
- upset if anything changes - so many examples here but this is improving with age
- eye contact - this is something that we've had to focus on teaching him (although admittedly this is something I have to think about and I kind of think that most people don't, but maybe I'm wrong there). DD by comparison just does it automatically and we've never said a word.
- anxiety
- sleep issues (more when he was younger, not bad after about 2 or 3)
- has issues with people that break rules or aren't logical - kids at school often fit into this category

In our case I can definitely understand the confusion.

While the DSM-5 may not directly list deficit in demonstrated empathy among diagnostic symptomology for ASD, it is my understanding empathy is assessed by the Autism Diagnostic Observation Schedule (ADOS).

The CDC has an "act early" campaign which shares milestones, free downloadable resources, and tips on steps to take if there is a concern.

The descriptipn of Asperger's and Glossary of Terms, by Autism Speaks, may also be helpful.

Indigo,

I'm sure you didn't mean any harm by posting a description of Asperger Syndrome from the Autism Speaks website, but Autism Speaks is an extremely controversial organization and is much hated among many autistic self-advocates. The position statement on the Autistic Self-Advocacy Network (ASAN) on "Unethical Fundraising Tactics Must Stop" is largely aimed at Autism Speaks:


To provide a different perspective on autism, here is ASAN's definition: http://autisticadvocacy.org/home/about-asan/about-autism/

Additionally (bringing this back to the topic thread a bit), here is ASAN's take about autism "recovery": http://autisticadvocacy.org/2013/01/asan-statement-on-fein-study-on-autism-and-recovery/

Thank you, George.

This is correct.

Some may say that any division among the ASD, 2e, and gifted communities is not a reason or justification for censorship, effectively promoting only one view to the exclusion of all others, such as precluding the posting the Glossary of Terms and description of Asperger's by Autism Speaks... amongst other resources shared in a thread discussing distinction between ASD and gifted traits.

My post was not about fundraising, nor extolling the virtues of any particular organization. Do you have issue with the specific links in my post - in other words, do you find that Autism Speaks has errors/inaccuracies in their Glossary of Terms and/or their description of Asperger's?

Was there anything in the linked Autism Speaks Glossary of Terms and/or description of Asperger's which you found to match ASAN's concerns (describing not as human beings but as burdensome, devaluing people on the Autism spectrum, messages of stigma, dehumanization, hysteria...) ?

While this list may be helpful to some, and I would not attempt to censor your presentation of it, I do not see the connection between each point mentioned and the DSM-5 and/or the ADOS. Lacking clear connection to DSM-5 and/or ADOS, some may question this definition. At the bottom of the ASAN definition of Autism which you linked, ASAN states that the content was sourced from a page on change.org, called What is Autism... apparently either the link is broken, the page moved, or no longer exists, further calling the definition into question.

Some may say that in using the term "Recovery", the ASAN article may have mischaracterized the 2013 research, which does not argue that a recovery has occurred, but reports on assessment results and asks appropriate questions. A 2015 research follow-up is also available.

The OP and others may benefit from reading about the various vantage points within the ASD, 2e, and gifted communities, including changes over time such as changes from DSM-IV to DSM-5 (2013) and the resultant ripple effects.

What about theory of mind? The absence of this is a characteristic of autism, and wouldn't empathy be connected to theory of mind?

This is from the DSM-V: "Deficits in social-emotional reciprocity..." ...so maybe it's not that they completely lack empathy but rather process it in a way that we don't recognize and therefor categorize as a deficit?

Yes, while empathy is not specifically mentioned, it is my understanding that it is referred to in that excerpt of DSM-5, thereby explaining the assessment of empathy as a part of the ADOS.

I may be wrong, but I believe the assessed symptomology for empathy is deficit in demonstrated empathy (an observable characteristic, what one sees from the outside), not in one's self-reported experience of empathy (what one feels on the inside).