Gifted Bulletin Board

Welcome to the Gifted Issues Discussion Forum.

We invite you to share your experiences and to post information about advocacy, research and other gifted education issues on this free public discussion forum.
CLICK HERE to Log In. Click here for the Board Rules.

Links


Learn about Davidson Academy Online - for profoundly gifted students living anywhere in the U.S. & Canada.

The Davidson Institute is a national nonprofit dedicated to supporting profoundly gifted students through the following programs:

  • Fellows Scholarship
  • Young Scholars
  • Davidson Academy
  • THINK Summer Institute

  • Subscribe to the Davidson Institute's eNews-Update Newsletter >

    Free Gifted Resources & Guides >

    Who's Online Now
    2 members (jenjunpr, aeh), 161 guests, and 14 robots.
    Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
    Newest Members
    Word_Nerd93, jenjunpr, calicocat, Heidi_Hunter, Dilore
    11,421 Registered Users
    April
    S M T W T F S
    1 2 3 4 5 6
    7 8 9 10 11 12 13
    14 15 16 17 18 19 20
    21 22 23 24 25 26 27
    28 29 30
    Previous Thread
    Next Thread
    Print Thread
    Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
    Joined: Dec 2007
    Posts: 312
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    Joined: Dec 2007
    Posts: 312

    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 6,145
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 6,145
    This little note (the part I bolded) was disturbing to me:

    Quote
    The researchers looked at the average of the test scores of all students, the performance of the most gifted children and the ability to solve complex math problems. They found, in every category, that girls did as well as boys. (To their dismay, the researchers found that the tests in the 10 states did not include a single question requiring complex problem-solving, forcing them to use a national assessment test for that portion of their research.)

    TEN states!

    *sigh*

    I am glad they're finally figuring out that girls can do math though. It's about time!!!


    Kriston
    Joined: Apr 2008
    Posts: 1,815
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Apr 2008
    Posts: 1,815
    Quote
    (To their dismay, the researchers found that the tests in the 10 states did not include a single question requiring complex problem-solving, forcing them to use a national assessment test for that portion of their research.)

    Yep, gotta pull out the Singapore Math Challenging word problems books this weekend!

    Joined: Dec 2007
    Posts: 312
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    Joined: Dec 2007
    Posts: 312
    That is why math competitions are so important.

    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 6,145
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 6,145
    I'm wondering which 10 states.


    Kriston
    Joined: Apr 2008
    Posts: 1,815
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Apr 2008
    Posts: 1,815
    lol Kriston we cross-posted!

    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 6,145
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 6,145
    Hey, great minds wonder about the same disturbing stats!

    smile


    Kriston
    Joined: Oct 2007
    Posts: 2,231
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Oct 2007
    Posts: 2,231
    Well at least NCLB is good for SOMETHING. smile

    Joined: Jul 2008
    Posts: 165
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Jul 2008
    Posts: 165
    This is such an interesting - and politically dangerous - issue. Larry Summers, the former president of Harvard, made his job much more difficult than it needed to be by provocatively and stupidly discussing it in a ham-handed way. But the issue also shows how poor journalists are at reporting scientific data. The NYT article reports that:

    Originally Posted by NYT
    The researchers looked at the average of the test scores of all students, the performance of the most gifted children and the ability to solve complex math problems. They found, in every category, that girls did as well as boys.

    But that's just not what the actual article says. The article does say that there is no statistically significant difference between the average performance of boys and girls. But it says that the variance is greater for boys than for girls. That means, pace what the NYT reports, that there are more boys in the upper tail (and presumably in the lower tail, too) of the distribution. When it comes to the most gifted mathematics students, in other words, and presumably the most incapable as well, the boys are overrepresented. Interestingly, the variance ratio (the ratio of male variance to female variance) differs by ethnicity. The article does not give us the full detail of the data, but it reports that for whites in grade 11 in Minnesota the variance ratio for those in the 99th percentile is 2.06. That means that there are roughly twice as many boys in that category as girls. By contrast, for Asian Americans in grade 11 in Minnesota the variance ratio at the 99th percentile is 0.91. In other words, there are slightly more girls than boys in that category. Still, when all the ethnicities are grouped together,

    Originally Posted by Science
    All VRs, by state and grade, are >1.0

    The variance ratio is less than many have assumed, and not nearly significant enough to account for the fact that, for example, only 15% of the current students in engineering Ph.D. programs are women. But the article does report a difference in the tails. It makes no claim whatsoever to explaining this difference: it could be due to social typing, innate difference, or some combination of these and other factors. Obviously the significance of the results differs dramatically depending upon what causes them. But the main thing is that it's a subtle issue that the journalists are running roughshod over. Any discussion of the topic needs to go beyond simplistic cheerleading.

    BB

    Joined: Mar 2007
    Posts: 797
    acs Offline
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Mar 2007
    Posts: 797
    I think you make a good point about the data. I had read another article on a longitudinal study of mathematically gifted youth that suggested that boys tend to be more focused in their pursuits, working intensely on a specific area or two and really excelling, while girls tend to be more global, making connections between multiple (often apparently unrelated) fields. Basically, boys went for more depth where girls went for more breadth. This may explain some of the discrepancies you point out.

    Here is a brief quotation from the article:
    Quote
    although more mathematically precocious
    males than females entered math-science careers,
    this does not necessarily imply a loss of talent because the
    women secured similar proportions of advanced degrees
    and high-level careers in areas more correspondent with
    the multidimensionality of their ability-preference pattern
    (e.g., administration, law, medicine, and the social sciences).
    By their mid-30s, the men and women appeared to
    be happy with their life choices and viewed themselves as
    equally successful (and objective measures support these
    subjective impressions).

    The full article can be found here http://www.vanderbilt.edu/Peabody/SMPY/DoingPsychScience2006.pdf

    Last edited by acs; 08/01/08 08:24 PM.
    Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

    Moderated by  M-Moderator 

    Link Copied to Clipboard
    Recent Posts
    Testing with accommodations
    by blackcat - 04/17/24 08:15 AM
    Jo Boaler and Gifted Students
    by thx1138 - 04/12/24 02:37 PM
    For those interested in astronomy, eclipses...
    by indigo - 04/08/24 12:40 PM
    Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5