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    #221184 - 08/22/15 04:11 PM Re: How to Get School to Challenge Your Child [Re: Marcy]
    ndw Offline
    Member

    Registered: 11/29/13
    Posts: 314
    Sounds a lot like my DD. We operated on the same principle that we didn't want her to be cruising at the top of the class but striving to reach the top. It was better for her to develop the skills of learning to learn.

    It does cost the school nothing but schools often feel that they know much better than you what is right for your child. After all education is their business. Having a gifted child can be rather like coming across a patient who has a very rare condition and walks in with books of information for you. Some schools are grateful for the information and the fact that you have done the work to compile it, some are aggravated that you presume to encroach on their knowledge silo and get narky. I have seen both. Obviously we all hope for the former!

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    #221422 - 08/27/15 02:44 PM Re: How to Get School to Challenge Your Child [Re: Marcy]
    Ivy Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/08/14
    Posts: 337
    Good luck with all your advocacy efforts. One thing I'd like add (and I know I'm late coming into this discussion) is that you may decide to embark on deeper research into school options in your area. Where we're at there are educational options that fly under the radar and don't come up immediately in searches. Everything from public virtual schools to homeschool coops to private options for quirky or gifted (or quirky/gifted kids) to legacy charters or magnets in the public system that don't really advertise. I don't know why this is, but as a parallel effort, look deeper in what alternatives there really are.

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    #222034 - 09/08/15 10:38 PM Re: How to Get School to Challenge Your Child [Re: Marcy]
    Marcy Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 07/13/15
    Posts: 34
    I finally got the full results of DS6's WISC-V -- definitely last minute as his IEP meeting is tomorrow morning.

    WISC-V
    Verbal Comprehension 155
    Visual Spatial 147
    Fluid Reasoning 151
    Working Memory 120
    Processing Speed 103
    Full Scale IQ 144

    Subtests
    Block Design 19
    Similarities 19
    Matrix Reasoning 19
    Digit Span 13
    Coding 8
    Vocabulary 19
    Figure Weights 18
    Visual Puzzles 18
    Picture Span 14
    Symbol Search 13

    Obviously the coding section pulled his full scale score down -- the psych said this involved writing and the problem was his poor fine motor skills. From the reading I've done since, he has clearly hit the ceiling effect as well, with subtest scores of 18/19 in 6 of the 9 sections.

    He also had other tests that I hadn't heard of -- results below.

    Reynolds Intellectual Assessment Scale (RIAS)
    Verbal 154
    Nonverbal 145
    Overall IQ 158

    Subtests
    Guess What (verbal) 75
    Verbal Reasoning (verbal) 85
    Odd-Item Out (nonverbal) 72
    What’s Missing (nonverbal) 75

    -----

    Wechsler Individual Achievement Test - III

    Math Problem Solving 150 Grade Equivalent 4.6
    Word Reading 150 Grade Equivalent 8.4
    Psuedoword Decoding 134 Grade Equivalent 7.2
    Numerical Operations 126 Grade Equivalent 3.0
    Spelling 141 Grade Equivalent 4.9
    Math Fluency – Addition 108 Grade Equivalent 2.0
    Math Fluency – Subtraction 118 Grade Equivalent 2.3

    -----

    Woodcock Johnson Reading Mastery Test-III

    Oral Reading Fluency 138 Grade Equivalent 5.1
    Passage Comprehension 145 Grade Equivalent 7.5

    -----

    I was kind of surprised at the two math scores with 2nd grade equivalents as he's so far ahead in math concepts, but it did say fluency so maybe it involves speed.

    In any case, his IEP meeting is tomorrow, so hopefully we get somewhere with the school this year.

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    #222037 - 09/08/15 11:37 PM Re: How to Get School to Challenge Your Child [Re: Marcy]
    indigo Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/27/13
    Posts: 4976
    Due to the lower scores for Working Memory and Processing Speed, did they calculate a General Ability Index (GAI), in addition to the Full Scale IQ (FSIQ)?

    Given your child's fine motor skill issues, have you looked at information about the possibility of dysgraphia ?

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    #222042 - 09/09/15 02:39 AM Re: How to Get School to Challenge Your Child [Re: Marcy]
    ndw Offline
    Member

    Registered: 11/29/13
    Posts: 314
    I second Indigo's question about the GAI. It may depend on your school district as to whether they accept the GAI or the full score but either way you have a child with excellent reasoning skills who deserves an appropriate and challenging education. Good luck with the IEP meeting!

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    #222047 - 09/09/15 04:44 AM Re: How to Get School to Challenge Your Child [Re: Marcy]
    aeh Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/26/14
    Posts: 3992
    GAI = 158, same as the RIAS FSIQ.
    CPI = 114, for just under a 3 SD difference GAI > CPI. IOW, big, very big.

    RIAS subtest scores are reported as T-scores, so that's a truly impressive verbal reasoning score (+3.5 SDs, analogous to scaled score 20 or 21 on the WISC).

    WIAT-III Math Fluency subtests are probably a function of writing speed, in this case, and as reflective of the skills responsible for his Coding score as they are of his math fact knowledge. (Task is akin to a paper/pencil "math minute".)

    The other achievement scores are generally reasonable for his GAI, likely with some effects from lack of systematic instruction for later skills in numerical operations.
    _________________________
    ...pronounced like the long vowel and first letter of the alphabet...

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    #222050 - 09/09/15 05:59 AM Re: How to Get School to Challenge Your Child [Re: aeh]
    indigo Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/27/13
    Posts: 4976
    For anyone unfamiliar with CPI who may wish to learn more about it, I'll add this link.

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    #222073 - 09/09/15 11:06 AM Re: How to Get School to Challenge Your Child [Re: indigo]
    Marcy Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 07/13/15
    Posts: 34
    Originally Posted By: indigo
    Due to the lower scores for Working Memory and Processing Speed, did they calculate a General Ability Index (GAI), in addition to the Full Scale IQ (FSIQ)?

    Given your child's fine motor skill issues, have you looked at information about the possibility of dysgraphia ?


    I don't think he has dysgraphia, after looking at the link you gave. His handwriting is only a bit worse than the average 2nd grader's -- it only seems bad when compared to his intellectual ability. He is also a great speller both orally and written.

    I probably spoke wrongly when I said poor fine motor skills. He has 6yo-appropriate fine motor skills, but they still hold him back when writing since his intellectual skills are so far advanced.

    Originally Posted By: aeh
    GAI = 158, same as the RIAS FSIQ.
    CPI = 114, for just under a 3 SD difference GAI > CPI. IOW, big, very big.

    RIAS subtest scores are reported as T-scores, so that's a truly impressive verbal reasoning score (+3.5 SDs, analogous to scaled score 20 or 21 on the WISC).

    WIAT-III Math Fluency subtests are probably a function of writing speed, in this case, and as reflective of the skills responsible for his Coding score as they are of his math fact knowledge. (Task is akin to a paper/pencil "math minute".)

    The other achievement scores are generally reasonable for his GAI, likely with some effects from lack of systematic instruction for later skills in numerical operations.


    I found out this morning that his math scores were low because he maxed out the math for his age. The neuropsych said the tests didn't go into multiplication or division for age 6 even though he knew them already. His handwriting wasn't an issue there as he did all the problems in his head.

    -----

    The meeting seemed to go okay although his school is dead-set against grade acceleration. His teacher really seems interested in giving him challenges and things to engage him. She already has him doing different work during center time when the other kids in his class are doing the grade level skills. We'll have to see how things go -- my only real concern is that he's happy, since he was so miserable last year.

    -Marcy

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    #222084 - 09/09/15 01:03 PM Re: How to Get School to Challenge Your Child [Re: Marcy]
    aeh Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/26/14
    Posts: 3992
    Hate to mention this, but there is no hard limit on the items administered on the WIAT-III numerical operations, other than the usual discontinue rule based on incorrect responses, so not attempting the multiplication and division problems was a decision by the examiner, not an artifact of the test.
    _________________________
    ...pronounced like the long vowel and first letter of the alphabet...

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    #222133 - 09/10/15 01:19 PM Re: How to Get School to Challenge Your Child [Re: aeh]
    Loy58 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/11/13
    Posts: 816
    Originally Posted By: aeh
    Hate to mention this, but there is no hard limit on the items administered on the WIAT-III numerical operations, other than the usual discontinue rule based on incorrect responses, so not attempting the multiplication and division problems was a decision by the examiner, not an artifact of the test.


    Yep. DS has a similar GAI and took the WIAT at age 6. He hit higher skills and you can get up to a 160.

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