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    Joined: Mar 2008
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    KAR120C Offline OP
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    Since I brought it up under the Geometry Resources thread, and since others are talking about it elsewhere, I thought I'd start a whole new thread just for Lego Mindstorms...

    I'm just about to buy the "retail" Mindstorms NXT kit (#8527, $244 at Amazon)... rather than the official FLL Mindstorms kit (#979792, $315 through FLL), mostly because between what we already own (bins and bins including a complete RCX kit from way back when) and the fact that our proposed team will have three NXT kits and one RCX among us, and plenty of extra parts, I'm thinking we can make up the difference on our own. I'm also ordering the NXT Zoo book as a fun summer introduction for the team, and I've already downloaded the "extra parts you need" list, which I think we've got covered..... I hope!

    Anyway, what else would anyone suggest? I won't be able to keep myself from hitting "submit" for much longer, so talk fast! wink

    Also on the Lego Engineering front, we did the "Elementary Engineering 1" curriculum using kit #9630 (Simple and Motorized Machines Set) with a group last fall and it was pretty fun... although DS has done simple machines with K'nex several times already, and there wasn't a lot more to it than that. I think the 2nd part ("Elementary Engineering 2") would be much more interesting, and probably doable for any kid who knew the simple machines already, without the first semester at all. It sounds like a different thing from what RPM9 was describing -- we had trebuchets, but no balloon cars (rubber band cars yes, but not balloon) and I don't see the carpet sweeper... So there might be another one or several out there!

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    We're new to all this Lego stuff. I'm considering starting a FLL team, since there doesn't seem to be one about for DS7 to join unless I start one, though there seems to be some interest in the local GT homeschooling community if the e-lists I belong to are any indication. Apparently no one wants the responsibility for running the show, though they may join if I start a team. *sigh*

    Anyway, I'm reading this thread with interest and would appreciate any tips from anyone who can steer us in a good starting direction. We have no "fancy" Lego kits yet: just the basic bricks so far.

    For a FLL team, do the kids all provide their own Lego kits? How does it work? When I see $200+ prices, I get a bit nervous about the financial commitment...especially if I'm coaching and expected to provide for more than just my own child!


    Kriston
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    KAR120C Offline OP
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    Well I've only ever done JFLL before... It's cheaper, but a little more weighted toward "cute" and away from "challenging", especially at the higher ends of the age range. Not bad, just lighter. We did that with a four-boy team last year and had a lot of fun. The kit was about $100 and we shared the cost and then re-sold it at the end and shared the earnings, so it came out even.

    This year we're proposing to do the FLL level, but from what I can tell four kids isn't enough (just workload-wise), so we're looking to add some. I think 8 seems about right... So the $200 registration and $65 setup kit will be split 8 ways (if I can pin down 8 people!) which isn't so bad. The official Mindstorms kit is $315 I think, and I'm guessing it has extra parts, although it is SO HARD to figure those things out from the website!! grrr... Anyway. I'm hoping we can make it on the retail version of NXT plus what we already own, but that means we're depending on two families' personal Legos (mine and one other) for our team use. On the plus side, we don't have to buy more for the team, and we don't have to figure out how to divvy them up at the end. On the minus side, parts could be lost. I'm completely OCD about that, and will be inventory-ing regularly, but it does make me nervous. I hate lost parts.

    So our own financial outlay will be to buy our own Mindstorms kit (which I'd be doing anyway), and 1/8 of the registration and setup, which comes to about $33. Not too bad. smile

    Take all this with a grain of salt though... I'm only starting out with the FLL level! smile

    Last edited by KAR1200; 06/26/08 09:23 AM.

    Erica
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    We'd probably go with JFLL ourselves for the first year, so as to stick a toe in instead of diving in. (See how much of a newbie I am! I didn't even think to specify between the "regular" and the "junior" leagues!)

    Your advice is extremely valuable, Erica, salt or no salt! Thanks! smile


    Kriston
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    Oh, we did the carpet sweeper. It is in the Science and Tech kit which was renamed end of last year I believe.

    That is why I did JFLL last year, to get my toe in the water. I think we'll do another year of JFLL, since DS is 8yrs old, and move into FLL when he's 9yrs old.

    Last edited by Dazed&Confuzed; 06/26/08 09:31 AM.
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    May I ask: what's involved in starting and running a JFLL team? What's the time commitment? How long does the commitment last? Can parents share the time burden, or does there have to be a consistency of coaching from one person?

    Big thanks for this insight!

    And please return to Erica's questions! I don't want to hijack the thread! frown


    Kriston
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    What is FLL? All this Lego stuff seems great but sooo expensive. (Also the Zome stuff). I'm not sure where to start. We've just got regular lego bricks and the Mars Mission Command Base. Pud is going to Lego camp this week and building and racing cars but he hasn't asked for any of it yet. I'll have to think on it.

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    My *totally inexperienced* understanding of it is that it's kind of like robotics engineering with Legos, so it's good for younger kids to start on, especially the engineer-y types, like my son. FLL stands for "First Lego League."

    Here's the website I was directed to for info: http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=70 From there I found a local contact to ask about teams.

    I don't know if that helps at all...


    Kriston
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    Thanks! Great help! laugh


    Kriston
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    My JFLL team which consisted of 4 boys (all 7yrs old except my 4yr old). We met Sundays for 2hrs. I won't do that again. It cut too much into family time considering we have soccer on Saturdays and Sundays. The boys only get to see their dad on the weekend so next year, we'll have to meet during the week. But I tell you, with all the sports (kids doing multiple sports except mine) it's very hard to get them all together.

    Be ware, some FLL competitions are in November or December so the season can be shorter. Our exhibition for JFLL (non-competitive - each time got an award for what they were best at) and the FLL competition was Feb 10 so our season was much longer than most.

    JFLL: the kit last year for the challenge was the Science and Technology kit sold by LEGO Education. If you can't find it, let me know b/c it was recently renamed. I bought kid since I planned on keeping it. This kit is a hybrid of basic LEGO bricks and Technic parts.

    FLL: the LEGO MINDSTORMS robotics kit is mostly Technic pieces. The engineering is different from the RCX system (LEGO bricks). I've read several places that younger kids have a larger learning curve for Technic but I didn't see that w/ my 4yr old and 7yr old but the 4yr old has amazing fine motor skills.

    If you want to get a feel for FLL competition, the author of "The Mayan Adventure" has a summer challenge. It's the Mars BAse Command challenge. It's all done at home and you can upload photos and challenge times to the website.

    Here is a good blog. http://www.thenxtstep.blogspot.com/
    Here is the link for Mars BAse Command Challenge. http://www.marsbasecommand.com/

    I had the Mars Base command mat printed at staples today for $4. It has the look and feel of a FLL mat but smaller and paper so easy to roll up and put away. I think this will be perfect for us to get our feet wet at home in an FLL-like format. You download the mission for free. If you decide to do it, it's $14.95 for the book which contains the design specs for the items which go on the mat that the robot will have to manipulate.

    Brian Davis at the NXTSTep blog does some amazing stuff with datalogging and the NXT. My son did something similar for his science fair project and it went very well. LEGO Education sells a lot more stuff for the education side. I have two of LEGO Eds temperature sensors which can be used to test if snow is really a good insulator, if coffee mugs are good insulators, you can use to measure how far the temp changes every time you open the fridge....it's endless. Vernier also produces alot of sensors to be used w/ NXT as well. I also have the Compass sensor which we had great fun introducing a compass, locating items based on compass readings etc. My next purchase will likely be an infrared sensor which you use w/ an infrared-emitting ball to play Robo-soccer. Robo-soccer isn't as popular here in the US as it is in Europe but I know my boys will love it. I'm sure the programming will be quite challenging but they will learn tons.

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