Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Ruf's Levels

Well-put! This is exactly what I think, too.

I've lost track of who this behavior is about, so this is a generic statement. I heard a gifted educator speak about this type of behavior. She said that what sometimes (!) happens is that kids get so used to "checking out" or "avoiding" or "entertaining themselves" or whatever in school settings that they actually tune out too often and miss important things. Gifted kids usually pick up on these gaps pretty quickly but some of them never even know they missed something. Her point was that educators need to make sure that kids are actively involved most of the time (no kid is going to concentrate 100% all the time), especially gifted kids because it is so easy for them to tune out. Then, the gifted kids end up falling through the cracks because "well, if he's gifted, how come he doesn't know xyz?" or "he doesn't know xyz so we must do remedial work".

Ultimately, it is the teacher's job to engage kids. Does it happen with gifted kids? Unfortunately, not that often. The educator I heard emphasized hard that gifted kids need to go deeper AND faster. Didn't happen for us.

Again, my apologies, gratified. Not what I intended to say.

It was a fast and poorly written post intended to continue the conversation about Ruf, not an attack. Honest.

I blew it. I accept that and take responsibility for my poorly written post. But please listen to me when I tell you that I was intending to defned Ruf, not attack you. I was trying to make a general statement about another possible way to view such a response to school from a child, NOT judging your particular child. I was thinking about it in response to your view of Ruf, NOT intending to talk about YOUR child.

The connection with 9/11 is simply that the resarchers imply a commonality between post traumatic stress disorder and using disengagement as a coping strategy.
I found it interesting and relevent, that's it.

I agree that coping skills are necessary and I also teach coping skills to my children and utilize them myself.

You and I disagree on what we consider healthy coping skills.
I think it's fine to agree to disagree.

Squirt - yes my DS's psych said something very similar....that we need to teach him coping strategies (deep breathing exercises to get him through the day) but if it gets to the point that he's checking out so much that he's missing announcements, homework assignments, instruction, then we'll need to deal with the issue of lack of challenge for him.

My son apparently "disengaged" from the classroom by spending up to 30 minutes every morning sharpening a pencil. And we didn't find out about this behavior until AFTER school was over. We were told that he had been doing this for at least the last 9 weeks of school, perhaps most of the last semester, according to the principal. Why the teacher thought this was nothing to tell the parents about is beyond me. And why she allowed it to continue is beyond me even further! It's pretty clear to me that he *is* one of those kids who is checking out and missing important stuff.

He is not a daydreaming sort of kid but one who actively looks around for something interesting when he's bored. It was somewhat disruptive in class as he was bored most of the time. Just this morning he told me that he hates school because he has to do homework "about stuff I already know." His achievement scores indicate that he could possibly be skipped again to 4th grade for the fall but the principal stated "we can't just keep putting him with older kids...and we don't have the resources to teach him any other way." When I suggested that he needed further differentiation and faster pace for curriculum he just nodded and made a note on his paper.

Dr. Ruf makes generalizations about LOG and schooling. But she also considers the personality into it as well. She also looks at the type of school - there's a whole section in her book that classifies schools in terms of programming and opportunities, demographics and such. Gratified, it sounds like your children have been in a much different situation than my son. He was accelerated but last year had a teacher who didn't really care about him, never noticed or appreciated his abilities and even seemed to take pleasure at times in pointing out his faults. And she certainly wasn't interested in communicating with us.

When it is a mismatch you've got to do something. So we've chosen to use Dr. Ruf's expertise to help us figure this all out. I was taken by her comment to me about my son's refusal to go to school last fall that perhaps he is lonely. That thought had never occurred to me. He *seems* happy in terms of friends but his responses on the Social Support Scale he completed indicate that perhaps his friendships are superficial and maybe he's actually yearning for more connection. I'm not sure. I just know there are pieces of him that my husband and I just don't understand. I'm hopeful this testing will help us out.

Me too! If he had a teacher that took a little satisfaction when she was able to "knock him down a peg". That is an abuse.

There are certain words we don't like to hear, like abuse. And perhaps disengage is one of those sensitive words too. Perhaps certain words have such a negative connotation that we avoid using them. And perhaps we don't like to hear other people using them either. If a word provokes a visceral feeling, that doesn't mean we should avoid using it. Actually, I think that's a good time to ask ourselves why. Perhaps it lies with different understandings of definition. I don't know.

But no quotes about it. Mr. Wiggly standing at the pencil sharpener, sharpening his pencil for 30 minutes at a time is Mr. Wiggly disengaging from his class. I'm sorry you had such a bad teacher.

Mr. Wiggly's teacher sounds a lot like C-dog's teacher last year. I actually dropped in and peered in the window unannounced to see what was going on. I saw a circle time story with C-dog sitting way in the back, far from the group with a look of pure pain and sadness. Practically a quivering lip. After school I asked the teacher in an upbeat way: "So how was C-dog today, she seems a little sad?"
"OH NO!, Not at all!" "She had a wonderful day and was very happy?".
She's either severely clueless or simply evil. Haven't figured out which.

In any event, call it what you wish, do with it what you may.


We aren't always going to understand our kids, they are their own little persons! I'm sure Dr. Ruf will be able to give some things to work with in order to help Mr. Wiggly.

Who knows, maybe I'll be taking C-Dog to see her in the future!

She is mean.

I am probably going to sound crazy, but I guess that's nothing new for me...

My ds8 is a dreamer. Big time. he is also a doodler, like his mom.

I think that daydreaming is a massively important part of the creative process...the way we humans come up with some of our biggest ideas!!

I am not advocating for a kid being bored to tears in school, but I do encourage my son to feel comfortable about daydreaming, and doodling.

Since he loves to draw anyway, and often finishes his work earlier than other kids, I am ok with his stuff coming back with lots of drawings on it. I do emphasis that he's got to get the work done first, however! So far at least, no complaints from teachers.

When we're driving I usually try to engage him in conversation but sometimes he'll tell me very politely that he'd rather just daydream than chat. This can be a bit frustrating for me, but usually I am ok with it...I dont know if this is really an 'approved' concept but I do think it's a good skill to have.

I do think it's a good skill to have. Unfortunately my son refused to do it. I think he had the issue early on of daydreaming (making up math problems in his head) then he would miss instructions and not know what to do. This was negative feedback for him on daydreaming. I wish he had some coping skills to help get through the day. The psych taught him breathing exercises but I don't think he does them enough for them to become truely effective.