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    Joined: Feb 2010
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    Originally Posted by madeinuk
    From the linked article
    Where do billionaires go to university?
    By Sean Coughlan
    BBC News education correspondent
    29 October 2014

    Quote
    The University of Pennsylvania has produced more than any other institution, followed by Harvard, Yale, the University of Southern California, Princeton, Cornell and Stanford. And the most likely way of making money is by dealing in money, with billionaires mostly making their fortunes through finance, banking and investment.
    At most Ivies you cannot major in "business", only "economics". U Penn has an undergraduate business school, Wharton, which may attract aspiring investors. Cornell has a program in Applied Economics and Management. Princeton offers a major in Operations Research and Financial Engineering.

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    indigo Offline OP
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    Interesting article, I wish it would've linked to the studies as reading the article may have raised more questions in my mind than it answered. Some may say it had a bit of a time warp or suffered from chicken-or-egg syndrome, for in one line we read that a US university created billionaires, immediately followed by a sentence that a large number of foreign billionaires attended US universities. That, plus the title, "Where do billionaires go to university?" raise the question - Did these families already have billions, prior to sending their offspring to US colleges?
    Originally Posted by article
    But the dominance of the US universities is not simply about the US producing more billionaires. More than a quarter of the billionaires who attended US universities to take undergraduate degrees were from other countries.


    Another interesting note about the timing and applicability of the studies, to providing current advice regarding choice of college:
    Originally Posted by article
    There could also be something of a time-lag, because the average age of this group is 63, attending the university systems of four decades ago.

    Because they largely made their money in finance, possibly they were recipients of interest on loans.

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    Quote
    Um-- "higher education" would also include other post-secondary institutions such as for-profits, and community colleges, which have notoriously awful rates of completion.

    That situation is a little more complicated than I used to think, though, if you read about it...

    Anyway. Again, I have to insert the huge caveat that I did not watch the video. However, it sounded like it said that "2/3 of high school graduates enroll in higher education right after high school" followed by and "only a quarter of those that enroll will finish a bachelor's degree." This is a misleading way to present the facts (for one thing, many of "those who enroll" have no intention of receiving a BACHELOR'S degree) and I am instantly annoyed by anyone who would do it this way. The statistic of about 50-60% of students graduating in 6 years from 4-year colleges is widely known in education circles. To cut this to 25% is dishonest. (He might say "Well, I didn't mean 4-year colleges" but when you say "bachelor's degree"...Say what you mean and be accurate, even if it takes longer.)


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    Originally Posted by ultramarina
    Quote
    Um-- "higher education" would also include other post-secondary institutions such as for-profits, and community colleges, which have notoriously awful rates of completion.

    That situation is a little more complicated than I used to think, though, if you read about it...

    Anyway. Again, I have to insert the huge caveat that I did not watch the video. However, it sounded like it said that "2/3 of high school graduates enroll in higher education right after high school" followed by and "only a quarter of those that enroll will finish a bachelor's degree." This is a misleading way to present the facts (for one thing, many of "those who enroll" have no intention of receiving a BACHELOR'S degree) and I am instantly annoyed by anyone who would do it this way. The statistic of about 50-60% of students graduating in 6 years from 4-year colleges is widely known in education circles. To cut this to 25% is dishonest. (He might say "Well, I didn't mean 4-year colleges" but when you say "bachelor's degree"...Say what you mean and be accurate, even if it takes longer.)
    I agree with ultramarina's observations, and as she has noted, this is not always the case smile. Furthermore, someone advising people whether or not to attend college should tell them to evaluate their own chances of graduating, rather than relying on averages (which the author misstated). A research-based tool for this is the Expected Graduation Rate Calculator, from the UCLA Higher Education Research Institute, which asks for SAT/ACT scores, high school GPA, and demographic information.

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    indigo Offline OP
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    Originally Posted by ultramarina
    This is a misleading way to present the facts (for one thing, many of "those who enroll" have no intention of receiving a BACHELOR'S degree) and I am instantly annoyed by anyone who would do it this way.
    Not misleading if one reads the transcript and sees the sentences in context, not in isolation. Preceding paragraphs spoke of correlation of earnings with 4-year degree. Paragraph began with reference to 4-year degree. While students may begin at various types of institutions, only a fraction persist through to a 4-year degree (the type of degree under discussion at that point). Elsewhere the video suggests layering one's education... technical degree... bachelors... higher degrees.

    Quote
    I have to insert the huge caveat that I did not watch the video.
    It is helpful to familiarize one's self with the video or transcript prior to discussing it or disagreeing with it.

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    indigo Offline OP
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    Originally Posted by Bostonian
    someone advising people whether or not to attend college should tell them to evaluate their own chances of graduating, rather than relying on averages
    Regarding the advice given...
    So, how do you position yourself for high-wage, in-demand jobs?... The claim that you will make more money with an increased amount of education is not necessarily inaccurate, it’s just incomplete.29 That advice is based just on the averages. But no one is perfectly average. Everyone has unique skills, talents, and interests.

    Originally Posted by Bostonian
    chances of graduating... averages (which the author misstated)
    I understand that you may disagree with the college completion statistic which he included in his 2012 paper. However you may be making an apples-and-oranges comparison. He cites all who began post-secondary education... and persisted through to a 4-year degree, using sources dated 2005, 2006, 2011. You cite those who began seeking a bachelor's degree, at a particular institution, using a source dated 2012.

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    This isn't related to college completion, but it is related to how poverty affects enrollment in college.

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ects-childrens-college-chances.html?_r=0

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    indigo Offline OP
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    Thanks for this interesting link. I took into account that this was based on college enrollment for children born in the early 1980's, and my participation was evaluated to be in the 93rd percentile, with feedback that there was more equality than I guessed.

    Kids going off to college today were born about 15 years later and times have changed. The economy has tanked, with a recession starting in 2008, largely affecting the "middle class". Those with lower SES are said to receive substantial subsidy and those of higher SES may have been somewhat inconvenienced. Combining this information with personal anecdotes, I would draw a very different shape to reflect current college enrollment.

    I would be highly interested in seeing an updated version of this tool, utilizing current students' enrollment.

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    Quote
    This philosophy has increased college enrollment, resulting in 66 percent of high school graduates
    in this country enrolling in higher education right after high school.3
    That’s two out of three.
    Initially, they are deemed the successful ones. But, what you won’t see advertised is the reality that
    most drop out and only a quarter of those that enroll will finish a bachelor’s degree.4


    Personally, I find the 50-60% in 6 years stat rather shocking, so why embellish?

    Here is what really happens:

    --66% of HS graduates OVERALL enroll in some form of higher education
    --37% of HS graduates enroll in 4-year colleges. Of those, 60% graduate in 6 years.
    --29% of HS graduates enroll in 2-year colleges. Of those, 30% receive a certificate or associate's degree within 150% of the expected time to complete (eg, within 3 year for a 2-year program) Source: https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_cva.asp

    The community college stats are fuzzy and dissatisfying by everyone's admission, though (hard to take non-degree-seekers and those who move on to 4-year schools into account).

    ETA: Okay, I see that the author is focusing on the value of a bachelor's degree vs others, saying that a 4-year degree is seen as the end-all when not that many students can actually achieve it. I am not opposed to that message necessarily, but present your stats accurately, please. This is still a misleading way to make your point and very bad journalism. It is not the case that only a quarter of those who try to get a BA succeed.

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