Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment PRI scores - how does this relate to doing math?

Hi all --

First let me take one moment to thank you all for all your help, and for taking the time to help folks like me figure out what on earth we're doing! I truly appreciate it. These forums are an amazing resource (thank you Davidson!!).

I have a question, and it may be a dumb one. Bear with me... I believe PRI measures abilities related to mathematics and that type of learning/thinking. But how much does an "average" PRI score keep a kiddo "average" in math?

I'll get to the specifics: DS10 has a VCI of 158. He has a PRI of 115. (WM - 120, PS - 97) Would the fact that he has an unusual learning style and overall relatively high potential give a bit of a boost to the math ability?

He has never excelled in math (but gets 100%s on his grade level tests, etc. and learned basic math pretty early) but he has never been given a "reason" to. I need to come up with suggestions for what to do for him at school, and am wondering if given the incentive, he'd be able to push forward relatively rapidly in math just based on his overall ability... (he likes math concepts). I'm not looking to rapidly accelerate him, mind you, I'm just wondering if I should suggest letting him go faster where he can.

My thought for him is an online class to take *at school* that may combine true interests of his (science or philosophy or...) with math and writing he needs anyway.

Thank you!!

The newest research would suggest that unless you are completing a spatial task this type of reasoning is not as related to math as once thought. For lower level math, or arithmetic, working memory is generally more important. For higher order math fluid reasoning is typically the most important skill. Look at the matrix reasoning subtest as it is a measure of fluid reasoning (unless your child was given a WISC 5, then there will be a fluid reasoning composite).

Dunno. I do think it's important to distinguish between the procedural knowledge of arithmetic and the logical reasoning of algebra and beyond of mathematics.

Watching my kids operate, I've always attributed DD's extraordinary mathematics ability to her verbal ability, and DS's extraordinary math ability to some sort of black magic. Neither kids' math scores seem predicted by their IQ index scores. Their PRI scores are high, but not nearly as high as Broad Math.

I can see how WM should be important in arithmetic, but my kids' scores in that are are closer to average, but we haven't seen any impact on arithmetic.

On the WISC-V, the best predictors are the FRI (matrix reasoning and figure weights) and the ancillary QRI (quantitative reasoning index), which consists of Figure Weights (new to the WISC, but has been on the adult version since the previous revision, nearly a decade ago) and Arithmetic. PRI has been the focus of complaints about being a mixed measure (visual spatial and fluid reasoning) for quite a long time; this has finally been addressed in the -V.

On the WISC-IV, I would look, as sallymom said, at matrix reasoning and arithmetic.

Consider also that the nature of math instruction in North America is quite different moving from the primary years, to the intermediate years, to secondary math. Primary (k-3) level math is essentially a language task, as it is presented in our current educational system, consisting of learning the vocabulary of arithmetic. (And actual journaling and verbal explanations, in the Chicago/Everyday Math/constructivist school.) Math instruction begins to transition, increasingly, to concepts and problem solving beginning around 4th grade, until one reaches higher math at the secondary level.

Hi Pinecroft- I can answer anecdotally, if it helps at all. My DS8 took the WISC V. His highest score was matrix reasoning. The testers indicated that he has exceptional analytical abilities. Math is his strongest subject, but he also works well with challenging hard science concepts (relative to his age) and loves science.

Character development in fiction, not so much:)

Also- that is an exceptional VCI score. I think there is a section on verbal analytical reasoning. Similarities perhaps?

Well, for what it's worth, DS10 has average fluid reasoning scores and yet is, and has always been, a math monster. I honestly am not sure if there is something wrong with how he does those PRI tests (there are some weirdnesses), or if he excels in conceptual math despite them, flying on the basis of high memory and out-of-the-park visual spatial.

DS8 was flipped with PRI being in the 140's and a lot higher than his verbal score. He was accelerated a lot in math, but for what it's worth his reading achievement (above-level) score is consistently in the 99th percentile even though he had a high average VCI score on the WISC, indicating that the WISC scores do not always predict how someone will do in particular academic subjects.
(his highest scores on the WISC IV were matrix reasoning and picture concepts. His PSI and WM were both around 114, so average. DD's working memory was actually a lot higher than DS's on the WISC and she stumbles with math facts and can't seem to recall them quickly or reliably. She refers to DS as a "human calculator").