Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Should I be here?

Hi there. My oldest son just turned 6. I know that he is pretty smart, but not sure if he would fit under the classification of being naturally gifted. I saw a few threads here where posters described their not yet 2 year old being able to do incredible manipulation of numbers and letters well before they're supposed to. My son is nothing like this. I never thought him to be anything more than relatively bright up until he was 3.5 years old, certainly not "gifted".

When he was introduced to addition before he was 4 years old, I found that he mastered the basics very quickly. The single digit plus single digit problems that he brought home from pre-school were too simple. So we used a children's whiteboard that someone bought him for his 4th birthday to do more difficult addition problems for fun. After a few months of playing with the whiteboard every night after dinner, he was adding and subtracting three and four digit numbers with ease. He learned his times tables while he was still four. By his fifth birthday, he was multiplying three digit by 3 digit numbers and dividing four digit by two digit numbers. Around this time, he also learned how to manipulate fractions and operate on them in both mixed and improper form.

In addition to what I have taught him at home, he has been enrolled in an abacus course for most of the last year. One of the perks of learning the abacus is the ability to allow students to mentally manipulate products of large numbers. He is now able to multiply two by three digit numbers and divide five by two and five by three digit numbers mentally as a result of the abacus practice.

Reading-wise, most of the books he currently reads is at an accelerated reader book level of 3 to 4. Like with math, his reading did not develop at an incredibly young age. He was barely reading Green Eggs and Ham when he turned 5, but has made huge leaps in the past year.

DS will begin first grade in August. Because of how accelerated he is in math and reading, I am anxious about whether his elementary school will be able to meet his needs. On the other hand I feel that he should be in class with students that are of similar age because I don't want to stunt his social development.

I have considered looking into some gifted and talented programs, but all of these require IQ testing by a registered clinical psychologist. I wanted to get a feeler on this forum about whether this is something I should even consider for my child given his background (no gifted traits before three, takes in new information like a sponge after four).

I am relatively inexperienced on this board, so you should listen to other posters more than me :-) but I'd say yes.

My DS10 taught himself to read at 3, was reading well at 4, etc. Super into science and could discuss science knowledgeably early. All that kind of thing. DD8 did not "really" learn to read until she was around 6 or 7. Very typical timeline - although she took off once she was confident (she's perfectionistic, and would not admit what she did know until she was sure of it). She was just tested due to behavior issues this year in school (2nd grade) and low and behold, she tests higher than her brother, despite not showing real signs of being anything beyond an accelerated learner/high achiever until this year - and even then it was hard to tell b/c she wasn't actually doing much work (absolute refusal to do the menial tasks she had in front of her... in talking with the school psychologist, it turns out she met all the benchmarks/had mastered 2nd grade curriculum goals in September.. of course no one bothered to tell me anything beyond "she did well"... sigh).

If you can test him now, do so. The testing allows me to say w/out a doubt that DD deserves to be subject accelerated, and advocate for her w/out seeming like "that parent" who thinks their kid is "extraordinarily gifted" (but really is just smart...).

I wish I could give my kids back the years they spent learning very little in school. DS especially seems to have lost the joy in learning he used to have. If I had known what I know now, I'd have done it when DS started 1st grade for sure.

Welcome to the forum. Your concerns are relevant to it.

I don't think going to school with children a year or two older stunts the social development of a child, and I have never seen research showing it does. In fact, being with children of the same chronological age but a lower mental age may cause loneliness, since your child will have different interests.

First of all, welcome! And yes, you should definitely be here.

Every kid is different. My DS6 is the kind of kid who has a tendency to do a ton of "background processing" and then, after awhile, emerge at an advanced (sometimes near mastery) level, so perhaps yours has a similar approach to learning.

This screams gifted to me. Most 6-year-olds simply do not do this.

If you think that it will help him get the services that he needs, you should not hesitate to get him assessed. If you're pretty sure that first grade has nothing for him to learn academically, I'd say you're spot on looking into the gifted program.

FYI, the process of getting your child assessed will likely be an emotional roller coaster ride for you (I just went through this and was a complete mess... I can PM with you all the gory details). But keep in mind that parents can be blinded by their child's exceptional abilities for various reasons (lack of an "average" child as a reference point, Impostor Syndrome, etc.). We ended up applying to a gifted school for my DS, and they required an IQ test as well. We thought he'd end up scoring on the mildly gifted end but were completely floored when he tested highly gifted. So it's definitely better to know.

You should definitely be here.


Well-- in any event, there aren't too many people in the world that I think should not stand to get something out of READING here, but anyway...

I think that you're actually one of the parents who NEEDS to be here. How's that?

My own DD15 didn't learn to read on her own, either-- we had to "teach" her using a set of phonetically-controlled readers. Oh, she was MORE than ready, but she hadn't put it all together. (She was four, btw-- but she had known all of the letter 'sounds' (phonemes) and alphabet for many years.)



She tends to look like anything that the viewer expects to see, though, and is often reluctant to "show" what she really is.

She learned most early milestones "early" but not crazily so.... except... sometimes she would do something once, then not again for weeks, months, or in some cases years. Not on demand, not in private, nothing.

She's, um... in college now, after graduating first in her high school class-- at 14yo. With such ease that she's having to finally learn to challenge some of her perfectionism/anxiety/lack of study skills in COLLEGE.

So no. They aren't all looking like tiny Einsteins at 18 months old. In fact, what I wanted to say to you, in reading your post, was that the arc of skill development has-- in our own experiences with a PG child-- been the most insightful set of observations.

Your explanation of the dizzying rate of math skills acquisition-- that's a tell. Bright and even moderately gifted children cannot do those kinds of things, usually. Not without a LOT of parental pushing. I'm not sure that it's possible to master things like "literacy grades K through 7" or "math skills grades K through 4" in a few weeks or months without being at a higher LOG (level of giftedness).

My DD didn't SHOW us a lot of that kind of thing in math without prompting-- I mean, she learned a year of algebra in about 2 weeks at nine, but only be cause we made her do that (long, long story).
But she did do it in reading. She went from phonetically controlled readers to-- well, we're not even sure, but it was certainly middle school level reading and interest level-- by 7 months later. With no intervening anything from us. She reads at a ferocious rate-- faster than most adults I know, and she attained that kind of speed and comprehension within a year of learning to decode. That's a PG learning arc in action. It's like a step function-- I have no idea how it works.

She's also a bit unusual in that she's quite even in her academic profile-- that is, nothing is terribly far ahead or behind anything else, so it was a no-brainer in many ways to accelerate her, since she also has advanced social skills. She found agemates (and their frankly uncivilized behavior) to be nothing short of appalling when she was younger. Heck, even now she kind of finds that to be the case.


Get testing if you feel like it would help you. We didn't go that route because we never saw a reason (and because we also had a number of reasons to expect that testing was going to be inaccurate on the low side, and that therefore her performance level was the better measure).

I think that studies have shown that when parents suspect giftedness in their children it is usually there (so if you have a hunch, it is likely correct).

That said in our own DS4's case we thought maybe high average or moderately gifted, but he tested much higher (we take this with a grain of salt as it is still early days and IQ is not stable at this age).

Since IQ has a genetic component the parents' perspective on what is "normal" or "average" may be skewed.

In any event we found testing very helpful - it is good to have an independent measurement. At 6 your son can do the WISC I think.

DS8 had some abilities which were clearly out of the norm, and he was actually behind with other things, like his speech. He couldn't put two words together, but he could whip together a jigsaw puzzle. He also has some abilities with memory that I consider bizarre. When he was in preschool he could barely hold a pencil, but could draw outlines of states. He could name states in order from north to south from memory (even though he never spent much time looking at maps). Turns out he is 2e and has developmental coordination disorder, causing delays with certain skills. This can occur in "typical" children as well. They are just a bit slow in terms of brain maturation. This is one reason IQ is so unstable if measured before school age.

It's also possible that your DS is gifted in math but not so much in other areas.

I know, right? It's a bit frustrating to realize that being so close to him means I'm blinded by certain things that are obvious to everyone else.

I was acquainted with a former teacher who met my son when he was 2 and told me, completely unprompted, that she thought he was "a genius." At 2?! At that point, all he did was talk a big game. We chalked that up to my spouse and I talking to him like a normal person and not a baby. I guess that isn't the only factor.

Another vote for parents not seeing the LOG correctly. When DD was an infant, we suspected she might be very smart, but by the time she got out of first grade we figured she might be mildly bright. Imagine our surprise. We were right the first time.

I think a IQ test is totally appropriate. You'll know more than you know now and you can use that data (you have options open to you).

I can't tell you how many times I run across another adult who, when discovering that DD is my kid, says "oh, the smart one" or "she's really bright" or "she's the one who's so mature and thoughtful." (And sometimes I'm like, who is this person who runs around with my DD's face and name being all sharp and polite and why can't she show up at our house sometimes?)

Welcome to the list. This is a great place for advice and support.

Wow, I'm overwhelmed with the response here! My original post did not go through right away (probably because I'm a newbie) so I have not been back since I posted several days ago. I'll parse through the posts and respond a little later tonight. I really appreciate your opinions!

Thank you. Oh, and I need to learn the common acronyms here. DD and DS was pretty easy to figure out, but what's LOG? (nevermind, found it in Howler's post, level of giftedness!)



Or that there's an environmental factor at play here. Dad's a secondary math teacher and mother's an accountant.



We have many other similarly aged children to compare DS to. Unfortunately, none of them have a parent that is a math teacher that has the time to sit down with them for half an hour to an hour a day learning "stuff". That's why I'm not so sure that his ability is 100% based on giftedness. The more responses I read, the more I'm being convinced to test!



Thanks for the long post! You used the phrase "step function" so you're probably a bit mathy yourself! A year of algebra in 2 weeks is something I'd love to hear about. To keep you from retyping this, maybe you can link me to a thread in which you've posted this?

Is your DD15 completely independent in college right now? Or do you shuttle her each day?




Thanks for the welcome. And, yes, PM me the details. Or link me to a thread if you've posted it publicly before.

After your DS tested highly gifted did you send him to a different school?



Thanks for the welcome!

One thing about social development that would concern me is that if DS skips several grades, he will be less physically developed than his peers. And boys, well, boys will certainly be boys. I fear that he would be picked on for being younger and brighter. He's actually over 99 percentile on height (51 inches, sixth birthday) so he'd probably be average height if he skipped two grades. But once junior high comes around and other boys are hitting puberty, there may be some cruelty that he would have to endure.

We kept DS at his Montessori for this year instead of taking him to Kindergarten. He does well socially. He's always talking about his different friends and what type of sports / games they played in the playground that day.




DS seems to have no problem doing the menial tasks that they give him at school each day. He actually prides himself on being able to beat his teachers on timed math quizzes. When I look at the schoolwork he brings home, I often ask myself how he can be so patient as to do worksheets with 5+3 and 8+4 in it over and over and over and over and over. I would have an attitude problem long ago! They do occasionally write him worksheets with more difficult problems, but that's far and few between.

When it comes to non-math related topics, I do feel that he is benefiting from being in class. They do a good job of introducing the kids that are ready for it to more difficult language topics.

You seem to regret that you didn't test your son at 5 or 6 years old. What exactly would you have done differently from age 6-10?

You're welcome.

Yeah-- I suppose that we chalked a lot up to "enriched home environment" for a long time, too. DD started her life the child of two STEM professors, so-- yeah. Like the measured current in potential-stepped chronoamperometry, is how I think of it, actually... that's DD's "engagement/demonstration" level with new stuff. I don't usually share my kind of geeky/quirky thought process about this kind of thing. But this is the one place where at least a few other people inevitably know precisely what I mean with my peculiar analogies.


We eventually realized that most of our friends' kids weren't like this. Not even close to being like DD. It wasn't us, in other words-- it really was her being what she is. Because those other kids (some of them certainly moderately gifted) were being raised in highly enriched homes, too. DD was different.

Algebra in two weeks. Well. I've never actually told that story before, I don't think. It went like this-- DD was cyberschooled, and this was back in the day when assessment hard-copies were MAILED out to teachers-- and when there was only a sort of hard deadline at the very very end of the semester or school year. That's the background information.

So DD had more or less been blowing things off all term in the fall-- and the school kind of didn't press since they knew that this was in part due to the death in hospice of a family member, that we'd spent almost 6 weeks out of state, etc. etc.

So January rolls around, and I eventually get rather grumpy over the fact that she hasn't turned anything in since before October-- and sternly inform her that the deadline for all of that work is less than a week away. She cried, threw a major fit, screamed "I cannnnnnnnnn't!!!!" a few times, and then realized that I wasn't budging after I calmly told her that if that was so, then she was going to be failing the course-- her choice whether to do it with some degree of grace and a reasonable effort to stave off that outcome, or to just go splat.

Well, she worked about 40 hours during that week, and aced the semester. This feat frankly astonished my spouse and I. She was placed in the HONORS algebra I course intended for high school freshmen, and she was a nine year old 7th grader.

She kind of pulled the same stunt the NEXT semester, though-- but with a new twist. She basically blew off the material to such a degree that I knew that her exams weren't very good, but whatever-- I had a stack of them, and turned them in diligently to the main office (in person, even-- we were there for some kind of media thing that featured DD their pet Wunderkind), but then they never arrived in her teacher's mail-- really, really. He looked for them for three solid weeks-- they never showed up, and as far as I know, never have to this day.

She had thought that she was done-done-done with that class long about March, having just blown through all of the assessments (as noted, with lackluster work ethic, to put it euphemistically)-- until she found out that she needed to repeat ALL of those exams. All 8 of them, over the course of the 16 weeks. Oh, and complete a final exam that covered the entire year.

She had even less time that term-- only five days. We did concede that she might need an extension on that one, so she had an extra week available.

She aced that, too, but my goodness she was a touch resentful. Being nine (or was she ten? Nine, I think), she really didn't have a good sense that it was actually lucky for her that those exams went missing, given what I knew about their relative quality... after all, this was going onto a high school transcript.

Bear in mind that with a cyberschool, the "course" that students take covers the entire textbook, and isn't "adjustable" the way that B&M classes tend to run, too.



The following year, when she was taking all GT/Honors courses as a 10yo 8th grader, she did nothing from January through mid-March. Then polished off 87 lessons (that is, each "lesson" there is either one or two days' worth of instruction/work in a particular class, generally estimated to take students about 1-3 hours)-- in just four days. With straight A's; she was really doing the reading and the work, too-- I know. THAT is what "putting the accelerator to the floor" looks like, and it's why I say that PG kids do things that other kids simply cannot do.

As a junior (13yo), she took 3 AP classes and the rest honors, volunteered 6 hours a week as a math tutor, and spent three weeks in Europe, then missed 2 weeks due to illness-- again, with stellar grades and without even breaking a sweat. One of those classes was AP Physics.

Then as a senior, (also taking several AP classes and some dual enrollment college courses) she opted to jump into APUSH in March for the second semester-- nearly four weeks late. She made up the difference in a few days, and was privately sad that it hadn't been any more challenging than that to catch up-- she'd been hopeful that she'd have to work harder than that.

So.

To say that even with a 3y acceleration, even with GT placement, school was "insufficiently challenging" is something of an understatement.


The lesson to be learned, though, came THIS year-- when she tried the same stunt with Integral Calculus, which was an unmitigated disaster, to put it kindly. Well. She would still have passed the course, I think-- but it would not have been a grade she'd like on her transcripts. Still, it was rather impressive that she could cram 4-6 weeks' worth of a second quarter of calculus at the honors collegiate level into her brain at a mastery level in about 86 hours flat.

She has almost no real study skills-- she hasn't needed them.

She has no real work ethic-- again, it's never really been necessary.

Yes, she lives at home, but that is partly because she has a life-threatening medical condition which is very difficult to manage on a college campus, too, and-- well, I honestly cannot recommend any parent consider a regular dorm setting for a child under 17 years of age. Truly.


But she has friends, she is pretty happy, and she is able to "pass" as far older than 15. She is also struggling intensely with exam anxiety and not having the executive function that she needs in this setting-- never having needed it previously, see.

The lesson to be learned as a parent, though, is that somewhere along the way, DD figured out that, like a sideshow freak, or a circus animal, simply learning and being engaged isn't enough-- she's expected to Perform Extraordinary Feats! She internalized that formal school is about demonstrating what you know-- it's not about learning anything. It's about KNOWING. She struggles with socially prescribed perfectionism, which we believe wholeheartedly to have been caused by an inappropriate school setting and our failure to be able to provide one that was actually appropriate. It was as though the entire world was conspiring against our efforts to establish a healthy sense of self in our child-- by praising her for being "perfect" or "exceptional" they ignored the fact that someday, she was going to need to know how to struggle and wrestle knowledge to the ground.

Waiting to learn those skills until college is, um-- not recommended, generally speaking.

Hi Dynasty,

You say: "That's why I'm not so sure that his ability is 100% based on giftedness. The more responses I read, the more I'm being convinced to test!"

I have a few thoughts here that might help you.

First - I think there is a nuance to "when parents suspect giftedness, they're usually right." When you are talking about gifted parents, it seems that if the (gifted) parents have any suspicion the child is gifted AT ALL, there is probably actually a very high level of giftedness. Search on "impostor syndrome" and you'll see why this is true and see how many of us struggle with this as to ourselves and as to our children.

Second - My DS7 has certain IQ subset scores (VCI, GAI) that are quite a bit higher than anything I've ever seen, even on this board. Bragging, right? No - useful for you to know. Because my son shows almost none of the WOW things that many kids here show. Like so many other kids here, he will not perform, he will not display skills, and if forced to, he will just insist he can't do it and turn into a big jerk. He didn't read early. In fact he entered first grade reading below grade level. Three months later he was reading at middle school (or maybe higher) level. Still though, he'll tell you he can't read, if you ask. And he won't show you. He only showed the librarian so he'd be allowed to check out better books.

On the other hand, if you get him going on his current topics (currently, Magic the Gathering and the concept of time as a force in the universe) - look out! You're going to get blasted with stuff you won't believe is coming out of a 7-year old. Right up to the moment he suspects you aren't really interested, you're just testing him. Then - all stop.

Third - re assessment. I've written a few posts about how much having my son assessed helped me, as a parent, to feel comfortable in my choices for DS. I wrote one a few minutes ago on the LOG thread.

We are parenting at the far end of the bell curve. Folks who would never apply typical discipline and development strategies at the other far end of the curve nevertheless feel 100 percent empowered to show their disgust when we don't do what they perceive as the "Right Thing."

The fact is, it's often not the Right Thing for our kids, and applied to our kiddos may well do more harm than good. But since you're not likely to pin your child's assessment results to his shirt everyday, I guess we just have to cut people slack. They can't see what the issue is and just assume they are observing bad parenting. That's where the courage comes in.

There are some powerhouse parents on this website who didn't need a report to do the real Right Thing for the kids. And they don't need a courage boost to ignore irrelevant input. I wish I was one of those parents, but I'm not.

I'm pretty weak-willed when it comes to wanting people to know I am doing the Right Thing. I'm ashamed to admit that in the past, even when my instincts told me not to, I've done the wrong/neurotypical Right Thing to discipline my child. In those moments - when everything was going horribly wrong - my thoughts were outward, toward what people think, rather than inward toward my child and what he truly needed.

The report of my child's assessment is a lifeline for me in these moments. And that alone has made so much difference for my son.

So if you are susceptible to impostor syndrome and/or denying your instincts due to peer pressure, I'd say, "get that test done." It will be your most powerful ally.

Oh - and here's an interesting side note if you're still reading: that report has so much for us, even though we have NEVER shared it with anybody. NEVER. Not even family. It feels like dynamite to us - too subject to misinterpretation. People would think we were sharing just to brag.

Anyway, I ramble.

Yes - you should be here. Welcome. I hope we can help.

Sue

It occurs to me that procrastination is something that I do to make uninteresting tasks more interesting. Putting something off until the last possible minute flirts much closer to failure and generates excitement and motivation. Granted, I don't do this with course work, only rudimentary tasks. Your DD's learning abilities are waaay beyond mine. But I wonder if your DD has the same motivations for putting things off?

When DS was in first grade, and I explained to his teacher how high he tests for math, I could tell that she was thinking that I had just hothoused him in math. He learned basic fluency, math facts, was taught the steps to do calculations, etc. But then she worked with him and realized that he is actually gifted in math. You want to look at how he does with word problems, and concepts that he has not been directly taught. For instance say you haven't taught him anything about ratios or proportions. You tell him that it takes 2 tsp. of butter to make 24 cookies, how much butter do you need to make 60 cookies? Kids who have been taught ratios would know what they need to do, but gifted kids would just know the answer without knowing what a ratio is or how to do the computations. Anyway, it's just an example, obviously you can't figure out if a child is gifted based on one problem. DS did the Woodcock Johnson Achievement and for math it breaks it down...applied problems, fluency, calculation, for example. DS scored lowest in fluency probably because he is so slow with writing.

Just to note--this test seems to give artificially high scores to younger kids who have learned multiplication, division, etc. and I wouldn't bother with it unless you need the scores to apply for DYS or some other program.

It's really easy to think that as a parent, but I would say that exposure and ability are radically different things. Obviously, a person needs to be exposed to math concepts to have a chance to demonstrate ability, but the converse is simply not true: someone does not acquire an ability simply because they are exposed to it.

Not yet, but he was accepted to that gifted school and we are going to send him there in the fall. Our decision not to "stick it out" with his current public school was, for me, advised by discovering his LOG. I remember talking with the psychologist who administered his WISC about our schooling decision. After assuring me that the WISC cannot over-report someone's IQ (I was concerned), she went on to explain to me that I needed to consider the bell curve of this gifted school. They have their own bell curve comprised of only bright and gifted students, of course... but she was quick to point out that DS would be on the high end of even their curve. That made me realize that he's so far off his current school's radar, they aren't going to have a clue what to do with him.

To be honest, puberty sucks no matter what. You hear anecdotal stories about how really young, smart kids get picked on. Is it because they were grade skipped, or is it because they would have been picked on no matter which grade they were in? But on this board, I've heard grade acceleration to be a much more positive experience. Personally, I wouldn't base a decision about grade acceleration on social concerns, particularly if that is what he needs to stay engaged in school. The benefits seem to outweigh the risks.

But also keep in mind that grade acceleration may not be enough, in and of itself. The issue with many HG+ kids isn't just a subject knowledge issue; it's also a rate issue. A grade skip may help for awhile, but then the pace of learning may still be off, particularly in a mixed classroom setting. Unfortunately, there aren't really easy answers. What works for one kid may not work for another. While DS is really looking forward to having age peers who will double as intellectual peers next year, it's also possible that this new school may not be the perfect fit. We'll just have to wait and see and take it year by year (or even week by week).

My DS loves his age peers as well from K. He seems to get along with nearly everyone. I think that deceived us a little, too... we slipped partly into believing that he couldn't be highly gifted because he does so well socially (that is, believing the smart kid stereotype of someone who is awkward and shy with few friends). I think you'll find a lot of people on this board that will tell you that nothing could be further from the truth than those stereotypes.

Mine as well loves being in school, even though he has told me point blank that he doesn't actually learn anything there. I think the relative novelty of the routine and the experience of having age peers every weekday to interact with still trumps academic insufficiencies, and he enjoys the "non"-academic classes (art, music, and gym) where age is more important than intellect. I do believe, though, that school would have gotten quite old for him after not much longer.

The long and short of it? Trust your gut, because it's probably right.

Yes indeedy-- only, being a child, she has a child's emotional/stress coping, and is prone to (occasionally) getting in over her head with this strategy (witness Integral Calculus)-- when the Hail Mary doesn't lead to a touchdown... which feels like abject failure. Never mind that avoiding the crash and burn alone is pretty astonishing under the circumstances, it still feels like a shameful failure to them.

And yes, while I'm not in my DD's league, intellectually, I played many of the same head games with myself as a college student.

I know what is going on in that head of hers-- but it doesn't mean that I have any way to shift it.

This is what I worry about with my kids and my sanity... because I know I was very stubborn, and DD is already showing her very stubborn streak and I just wonder how this is going to play out. Even at 2, sometimes it is like dealing with a nit-picky lawyer (even her teacher has commented on that - we are very, very careful about what promises we make because she will come back to collect on her markers, and she does NOT forget) and I never know what will cause her to dig in her heels. At least I can pick her up now, but that won't work down the road...

When both of us are in an unhappy mood, DH cringes at our identical pouts and dagger-shooting eyes if he gets in the middle.

ROFL-- yes. My poor spouse feels similarly. DD is known colloquially among friends and family as "Mini-Me" for a very good reason. She also has that frighteningly immovable mode when her heels are dug in.

But she's actually just like my dad-- and only somewhat like me.

Still, this means that I am the parent with the user's manual to her brain, which is a useful thing that we never lose sight of as parents. Heaven knows that child development books don't seem to know-- so it's a darned good thing that we do thanks to my perspective.

That.

It's not what you make available, it's how they suck it up. And find more. And more. And more. Whether you will or not.

Some of our geekiest friends keep wanting to borrow our DS - because no amount of exposure is enough to get their own kids interested when they talk math, computers and engineering, while DS eats it up, because that's just who he is. DS and DD have the same geeky parents, the same exposure. He does high school math and sits in on university departmental particle physics lectures for fun, she loves to tie dye and batik. (and neither have the time of day for my own life sciences interests - exposure, schmexposure.) He's currently curled up in bed with Godel, Escher, Bach (thanks whoever reminded me of that one!), she's got Smurfs. She's MG and a pretty normal kid all round; he's, well, divergent in every possible way, and tests - well, there's some bugs, but certainly a standard deviation or two more than that. I could no more get her into Stephen Hawking than I could get him to stop. It's nothing about me, they are who they are.

But tomorrow, she'll take up quantum theory and he'll head for pottery class, just to show me I have no clue what I'm talking about.

I do this All The Time. It's not wise, but it is.

Individuals with ADHD-ish profiles do this too, probably because they require the dopamine flood to activate executive functions.

Then consider GT/ADHD...

The behavior is also quite common among individuals who are not ADD/ADHD, but have a genetic predisposition to addictions impacting the reward pathway that depends upon biogenic amines like dopamine.

This pretty much includes everyone in my family, btw. We all get a rush from procrastination-- DD more than me, and me more than my DH. In fact, I guess it also goes in proportion to LOG, at least in my own family and DH's, now that I consider extended family as well.

ouch. Is your college kid aware of her predisposition? And inclined to steer away from hazards?

OH yes-- definitely. We've very open about all aspects of her genetic legacy. It matters, that stuff.

She is quite risk-averse, too, which really helps. She knows that "experimentation" is playing with fire in light of her ample family history.

Hell of a post HK, thank you for sharing!

A strong work ethic is certainly something I want DS to have. I didn't have much of it, whereas my spouse is the complete opposite. I often rested on my laurels whereas spouse put 110% into everything she did. If DS ends up with my spouse's work ethic with an IQ that's at least a standard deviation above hers, he's going to be able to accomplish incredible things.

Thanks for the response suevv. I believe you're the second poster to bring up imposter syndrome in this thread. I had never heard of it before.

I do not consider myself gifted and I believe my spouse would think the same of herself. I took an IQ test in my early 20's that put me into the low 130's (WISC-IV). This was to help out a friend who was on her way to getting a doctorates in clinical psychology. Apparently she needed to run full length IQ tests on a number of people as part of her program. The score puts me around the 98 percentile which is about where I would have placed myself- not a level I would consider "gifted".

When I compare my DS's ability to soak in information to my own ability as a child, I have zero question that his brain is working at a level I will never be capable of. I used to share with my friends just how fast he learns new information (i.e. having him demonstrate the times' table as a 4 year old). But with his attainment of new knowledge and abilities seeming to never slow, I have all but stopped sharing with others his incredible-to-me feats. I'm not sure exactly why that is, possibly not wanting to seem like a show off. I only glanced over briefly the wikipedia page for imposter syndrome, but perhaps this has something to do with that.

DS is hit and miss with being able to internalize an explanation correctly before being taught the underlying concept. Though I haven't directly taught him ratios and proportions yet, he has seen some word problems recently that use it.

Thanks for the long response. It's good to hear that your DS has similar traits to mine (gets along well with peers, doesn't mind doing basic tasks along with the rest of the class). Since mine did so well at the Montessori, I have no doubt that he will do well in first grade. Though it is not a gifted school, it is one of the highest ranked elementary schools in my state (we use a 3 digit score called the API and this school is around 970). So one hope of mine (however misplaced) is that there will be enough kids in his school with his level of aptitude that they will be able to find ways to challenge him.

I hope your DS gets what he needs at the gifted school you're sending him to. Is it much of a drive?

dynasty, I hope and expect that your son will do well too, but be aware that a high API or even a high level of giftedness within the school doesn't guarantee they will be supportive or understanding. We discovered that a high API means a high level of conformity - an expectation that all students achieve at the exact same high level if properly taught. Their belief was so strong that they really couldn't comprehend that some kids were developmentally ready for concepts at a younger age. Friendly teachers would honestly forget what we said, or deny it outright, because they couldn't fit it into their worldview. Another local school has a lower API, with more kids with disabilities. Here there is more of a celebration of differences. We've been able to work with staff who really understand teaching the child instead of the curriculum.
Both my kids were social and popular until age 8 or so. At that point they stopped fitting in so well, and wanted friends more like themselves. I think it goes with the shift from playground to conversation based friendships.

You have good reason to be optimistic! You also have good reason to temper that with caution. Best of luck.

To answer the original question, yes, I'd totally have him tested. You'll just drive yourself batty wondering, if you don't. But make sure you find a tester who has experience with highly gifted children. FWIW, though, keep in mind that test scores at age 5 might or might not be totally solid. My DD's tests around age 5 were firmly in the moderately gifted range even though she was a little uncooperative, which seemed totally satisfactory at the time. Her scores at 8 were considerably higher and explained a lot about her hyperachivement.

Just so you know, a score in the low 130s on the WISC-IV is considered to be in the gifted / moderately gifted range. Here is a good reference from the Hoagies site that explains the terms a bit.

Sorry for the thread necro, but I finally have something new to add here (had him tested in the WISC-V today). When I made the original post on here, my son was finishing up kindergarten and had not yet started first grade. In the past 15 months, he's finished first grade at the local public school and had a great time with it and made a lot of friends. Even though we knew that he would be under-challenged on certain tasks, it still felt meaningful to have him there in developing social skills and ability to work in a classroom structure.

Throughout the year, I continued to supplement his learning by teaching him math and it seems like the sky is the limit here. I will only do this about twice a week at 30-45 minute sessions and he just consumes the new material at speeds I would not expect a 7 year old to. Our most recent topic was solving a two variable, two equation system by elimination and this will be followed by the subsitution method. Reading wise, he is at about a fifth grade level, most recently completing the first two books of the Harry Potter series. In addition to more challenging reads, he also enjoys reading the Magic Treehouse series. I bought a 28 book boxed set that he finished in a few weeks.

Today I took him to get tested and apparently he did fairly well. The doc still has to send me a digital copy of the results, but from my recollection, it was an overall IQ of 147. There were 5 sub-scores (most of which I don't remember the names of), but his highest was a 151 in fluid reasoning, with three other sub-scores in the mid 140's range and a fifth score at 125. If this qualifies him for the Davidson Institute (which the doc actually mentioned) but I don't play on moving him to Nevada just to attend the school, is there still much to be gained for us looking into the institute? I haven't looked into what the Institute has the offer outside of its actual campus, but seems like there's a lot?

Thanks in advance for the advice.

Dynasty, I had to respond because it sounds like we have similar little boys. My DS7 received very similar scores when we tested him this spring (he'll start second grade in a few weeks). Math is his strongest area too, although I've only introduced him to 4th/5th grade material. He loves the idea of algebra though! We were just accepted into DYS and I applied mostly for the community (online probably) and the access to educational consultants that would really understand my kid. We'll probably never go to Nevada as we live on the east coast, but the other two resources were reason enough for us to apply.

Thank you for the response mom2R&R!

From what you've seen so far, what kind of access can we expect from the "educational consultants"? Is there costs associated with this?

Once DS's official digital results come in, I will most likely send in an application as well.

I think you're thinking of the Academy. The Institute is the organization that supports a variety of programs, one of which is the Academy in NV. One of the other major programs it supports is the Young Scholars program, which you should (in my opinion) most definitely apply to. It's free, you can live anywhere in the U.S., and the benefits can be really helpful. More details can be found here: http://www.davidsongifted.org/Young-Scholars

Regardless, those are really strong scores. Congratulations!

Thanks for the clarification George! I'll certainly be looking into the young scholars program.

In addition to the great information at the link which George shared, here is an old discussion thread which may be of interest: What have you gotten from Young Scholars Program?.

Appreciate the link indigo. I did get a chance to read through it, just haven't returned to the forum since my last post!

After navigating the Davidson site, I finally figured out everything I needed to do to apply my DS7 to the Young Scholars program. We received an acceptance email a few weeks ago and are now in the process of combing through all the new access we have now to the site. Seems like they have a one week summer program for 8-12 year olds called STARS that we may register for.