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    #216499 05/18/15 08:32 PM
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    dynasty Offline OP
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    Hi there. My oldest son just turned 6. I know that he is pretty smart, but not sure if he would fit under the classification of being naturally gifted. I saw a few threads here where posters described their not yet 2 year old being able to do incredible manipulation of numbers and letters well before they're supposed to. My son is nothing like this. I never thought him to be anything more than relatively bright up until he was 3.5 years old, certainly not "gifted".

    When he was introduced to addition before he was 4 years old, I found that he mastered the basics very quickly. The single digit plus single digit problems that he brought home from pre-school were too simple. So we used a children's whiteboard that someone bought him for his 4th birthday to do more difficult addition problems for fun. After a few months of playing with the whiteboard every night after dinner, he was adding and subtracting three and four digit numbers with ease. He learned his times tables while he was still four. By his fifth birthday, he was multiplying three digit by 3 digit numbers and dividing four digit by two digit numbers. Around this time, he also learned how to manipulate fractions and operate on them in both mixed and improper form.

    In addition to what I have taught him at home, he has been enrolled in an abacus course for most of the last year. One of the perks of learning the abacus is the ability to allow students to mentally manipulate products of large numbers. He is now able to multiply two by three digit numbers and divide five by two and five by three digit numbers mentally as a result of the abacus practice.

    Reading-wise, most of the books he currently reads is at an accelerated reader book level of 3 to 4. Like with math, his reading did not develop at an incredibly young age. He was barely reading Green Eggs and Ham when he turned 5, but has made huge leaps in the past year.

    DS will begin first grade in August. Because of how accelerated he is in math and reading, I am anxious about whether his elementary school will be able to meet his needs. On the other hand I feel that he should be in class with students that are of similar age because I don't want to stunt his social development.

    I have considered looking into some gifted and talented programs, but all of these require IQ testing by a registered clinical psychologist. I wanted to get a feeler on this forum about whether this is something I should even consider for my child given his background (no gifted traits before three, takes in new information like a sponge after four).

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    I am relatively inexperienced on this board, so you should listen to other posters more than me :-) but I'd say yes.

    My DS10 taught himself to read at 3, was reading well at 4, etc. Super into science and could discuss science knowledgeably early. All that kind of thing. DD8 did not "really" learn to read until she was around 6 or 7. Very typical timeline - although she took off once she was confident (she's perfectionistic, and would not admit what she did know until she was sure of it). She was just tested due to behavior issues this year in school (2nd grade) and low and behold, she tests higher than her brother, despite not showing real signs of being anything beyond an accelerated learner/high achiever until this year - and even then it was hard to tell b/c she wasn't actually doing much work (absolute refusal to do the menial tasks she had in front of her... in talking with the school psychologist, it turns out she met all the benchmarks/had mastered 2nd grade curriculum goals in September.. of course no one bothered to tell me anything beyond "she did well"... sigh).

    If you can test him now, do so. The testing allows me to say w/out a doubt that DD deserves to be subject accelerated, and advocate for her w/out seeming like "that parent" who thinks their kid is "extraordinarily gifted" (but really is just smart...).

    I wish I could give my kids back the years they spent learning very little in school. DS especially seems to have lost the joy in learning he used to have. If I had known what I know now, I'd have done it when DS started 1st grade for sure.

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    Originally Posted by dynasty
    DS will begin first grade in August. Because of how accelerated he is in math and reading, I am anxious about whether his elementary school will be able to meet his needs. On the other hand I feel that he should be in class with students that are of similar age because I don't want to stunt his social development.
    Welcome to the forum. Your concerns are relevant to it.

    I don't think going to school with children a year or two older stunts the social development of a child, and I have never seen research showing it does. In fact, being with children of the same chronological age but a lower mental age may cause loneliness, since your child will have different interests.

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    First of all, welcome! And yes, you should definitely be here. smile

    Originally Posted by dynasty
    I saw a few threads here where posters described their not yet 2 year old being able to do incredible manipulation of numbers and letters well before they're supposed to. My son is nothing like this.
    Every kid is different. My DS6 is the kind of kid who has a tendency to do a ton of "background processing" and then, after awhile, emerge at an advanced (sometimes near mastery) level, so perhaps yours has a similar approach to learning.

    Originally Posted by dynasty
    After a few months of playing with the whiteboard every night after dinner, he was adding and subtracting three and four digit numbers with ease. He learned his times tables while he was still four. By his fifth birthday, he was multiplying three digit by 3 digit numbers and dividing four digit by two digit numbers. Around this time, he also learned how to manipulate fractions and operate on them in both mixed and improper form.
    This screams gifted to me. Most 6-year-olds simply do not do this.

    Originally Posted by dynasty
    I have considered looking into some gifted and talented programs, but all of these require IQ testing by a registered clinical psychologist. I wanted to get a feeler on this forum about whether this is something I should even consider for my child given his background (no gifted traits before three, takes in new information like a sponge after four).
    If you think that it will help him get the services that he needs, you should not hesitate to get him assessed. If you're pretty sure that first grade has nothing for him to learn academically, I'd say you're spot on looking into the gifted program.

    FYI, the process of getting your child assessed will likely be an emotional roller coaster ride for you (I just went through this and was a complete mess... I can PM with you all the gory details). But keep in mind that parents can be blinded by their child's exceptional abilities for various reasons (lack of an "average" child as a reference point, Impostor Syndrome, etc.). We ended up applying to a gifted school for my DS, and they required an IQ test as well. We thought he'd end up scoring on the mildly gifted end but were completely floored when he tested highly gifted. So it's definitely better to know. smile

    Last edited by George C; 05/19/15 02:46 PM.
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    You should definitely be here. smile


    Well-- in any event, there aren't too many people in the world that I think should not stand to get something out of READING here, but anyway...

    I think that you're actually one of the parents who NEEDS to be here. How's that?

    My own DD15 didn't learn to read on her own, either-- we had to "teach" her using a set of phonetically-controlled readers. Oh, she was MORE than ready, but she hadn't put it all together. (She was four, btw-- but she had known all of the letter 'sounds' (phonemes) and alphabet for many years.)



    She tends to look like anything that the viewer expects to see, though, and is often reluctant to "show" what she really is.

    She learned most early milestones "early" but not crazily so.... except... sometimes she would do something once, then not again for weeks, months, or in some cases years. Not on demand, not in private, nothing.

    She's, um... in college now, after graduating first in her high school class-- at 14yo. With such ease that she's having to finally learn to challenge some of her perfectionism/anxiety/lack of study skills in COLLEGE.

    So no. They aren't all looking like tiny Einsteins at 18 months old. In fact, what I wanted to say to you, in reading your post, was that the arc of skill development has-- in our own experiences with a PG child-- been the most insightful set of observations.

    Your explanation of the dizzying rate of math skills acquisition-- that's a tell. Bright and even moderately gifted children cannot do those kinds of things, usually. Not without a LOT of parental pushing. I'm not sure that it's possible to master things like "literacy grades K through 7" or "math skills grades K through 4" in a few weeks or months without being at a higher LOG (level of giftedness).

    My DD didn't SHOW us a lot of that kind of thing in math without prompting-- I mean, she learned a year of algebra in about 2 weeks at nine, but only be cause we made her do that (long, long story).
    But she did do it in reading. She went from phonetically controlled readers to-- well, we're not even sure, but it was certainly middle school level reading and interest level-- by 7 months later. With no intervening anything from us. She reads at a ferocious rate-- faster than most adults I know, and she attained that kind of speed and comprehension within a year of learning to decode. That's a PG learning arc in action. It's like a step function-- I have no idea how it works.

    She's also a bit unusual in that she's quite even in her academic profile-- that is, nothing is terribly far ahead or behind anything else, so it was a no-brainer in many ways to accelerate her, since she also has advanced social skills. She found agemates (and their frankly uncivilized behavior) to be nothing short of appalling when she was younger. Heck, even now she kind of finds that to be the case.


    Get testing if you feel like it would help you. We didn't go that route because we never saw a reason (and because we also had a number of reasons to expect that testing was going to be inaccurate on the low side, and that therefore her performance level was the better measure).













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    I think that studies have shown that when parents suspect giftedness in their children it is usually there (so if you have a hunch, it is likely correct).

    That said in our own DS4's case we thought maybe high average or moderately gifted, but he tested much higher (we take this with a grain of salt as it is still early days and IQ is not stable at this age).

    Since IQ has a genetic component the parents' perspective on what is "normal" or "average" may be skewed.

    In any event we found testing very helpful - it is good to have an independent measurement. At 6 your son can do the WISC I think.

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    DS8 had some abilities which were clearly out of the norm, and he was actually behind with other things, like his speech. He couldn't put two words together, but he could whip together a jigsaw puzzle. He also has some abilities with memory that I consider bizarre. When he was in preschool he could barely hold a pencil, but could draw outlines of states. He could name states in order from north to south from memory (even though he never spent much time looking at maps). Turns out he is 2e and has developmental coordination disorder, causing delays with certain skills. This can occur in "typical" children as well. They are just a bit slow in terms of brain maturation. This is one reason IQ is so unstable if measured before school age.

    It's also possible that your DS is gifted in math but not so much in other areas.


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    Originally Posted by longcut
    I had known he'd do well, but not THAT well. She basically said it was no surprise to her. The tone in her voice was that of "really?!"
    I know, right? It's a bit frustrating to realize that being so close to him means I'm blinded by certain things that are obvious to everyone else.

    I was acquainted with a former teacher who met my son when he was 2 and told me, completely unprompted, that she thought he was "a genius." At 2?! At that point, all he did was talk a big game. We chalked that up to my spouse and I talking to him like a normal person and not a baby. I guess that isn't the only factor.

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    Another vote for parents not seeing the LOG correctly. When DD was an infant, we suspected she might be very smart, but by the time she got out of first grade we figured she might be mildly bright. Imagine our surprise. We were right the first time.

    I think a IQ test is totally appropriate. You'll know more than you know now and you can use that data (you have options open to you).

    I can't tell you how many times I run across another adult who, when discovering that DD is my kid, says "oh, the smart one" or "she's really bright" or "she's the one who's so mature and thoughtful." (And sometimes I'm like, who is this person who runs around with my DD's face and name being all sharp and polite and why can't she show up at our house sometimes?) laugh

    Welcome to the list. This is a great place for advice and support.

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    dynasty Offline OP
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    Wow, I'm overwhelmed with the response here! My original post did not go through right away (probably because I'm a newbie) so I have not been back since I posted several days ago. I'll parse through the posts and respond a little later tonight. I really appreciate your opinions!

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