Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional and yet another thread

Also: after thinking over what the neuropsych told me re: teachers' perceptions of behaviors...my conclusion is that none of his behaviors are severe. I was talking with my parents about it and said my feeling is that DS is annoying and irritating. My dad said, "TOO BAD. Lots of people are irritating. They can't remove him from school on that basis." LOL

I discussed the "class-clown" oneupmanship with DS and his teachers' perception that he is being competitive and trying to "outdo" his classmates. He said that is not what's happening, at all. He said he loves it when people are funny and he becomes so excited and overstimulated that he just wants to keep it going--doesn't know when to put on the brakes. That seemed pretty insightful to me, and also gives us something to work with because if he can begin to notice when he is "amping up" physiologically, perhaps he can learn to regulate it better. I hope.

They probably want things like age when walked, talked, all that kind of stuff. Sometimes that helps them decide things if they are on the fence.

I will say that in our experience with gifted ASD it was important to separate verbal giftedness/fluency from pragmatic language use. It took us a while to find people who were able to do that.


Report the results ASAP and ask for a meeting to re-evaluate in light of the new evidence. I agree that it may or may not happen this year, but it's a priority that it happen as soon as possible. You can change the 504 meeting agenda to accommodate as needed.

Even though it's late in the year, it helps the school to have a heads up.


It is also useful to have an advocate because *they can say things in meetings that you can't.* If I tell people my fourth grader has read and understood a college textbook, no one will believe me. If the advocate says it, it's plausible.

Likewise: they can call people out when they say inappropriate things, in a matter of fact way. That role is very tough for a parent.

Well, yeah. But down the road people can definitely choose to not offer him a job because he's irritating in an interview.

In some ways, kids like yours are the trickiest-- they are not "obviously disabled" but they are also not within the norm.

I think the best strategy is to help them learn the norms and enough self-advocacy and self-awareness that they can blend in as needed. Protective coloration.


Yep. He can do this.

There are lots of ways to teach this skill. Some people use the "Incredible 5-point scale" which also has resources for teenagers. http://www.5pointscale.com/more_sweet_scale_five_book.htm

I'm not even sure I remember DS milestones, only that they were within normal ranges--although I know he was much less physical than my other two children.

I'm wondering if it's useful to report odd anecdotal things to neuropsych, since of course I've been reading like a maniac.

For example:
DS began reading simple words very young (2) but then stopped. He was an early reader but not exceptionally early.

DS was the world's easiest baby. Slept through the night extremely early, almost never cried, was content to sit and watch me, liked to sit and play (didn't get into things). I have read some ASD babies are like this. With the exception of loud, startling noises--which totally freaked him out (and still do).

One anecdotal thing I read (who knows where?) is that kids with ASD often control play with other children. I remember thinking it was very strange that DS would play with other children in ways that seemed to be imaginative, but he was the director. He would say: I will say [.......] and then you say [......]. Over and over and over. Fortunately for him, he had a younger sister who was compliant.

He has been described as a Little Professor dozens and dozens of times by adults. I don't think he presents this way at school/with peers.

Also, something I'd forgotten: he used to have to "start over" many many times when he tried to express himself. Not quite a stutter, but similar. Like he'd get lost in the middle of a sentence, and began again, with EXACTLY the same words he'd used before, but adding on more each time (this was very exhausting to listen to).

He sucked his thumb and "flicked" his bellybutton simultaneously until about last year, when he was tired or anxious.

He was terrified of butterflies for a VERY long time (which I found hilarious and disturbing at the same time) and then moved on to bees. We have to re-acclimate every summer to the fear of stinging insects (he has never been stung).

He did not learn to tie his shoes until last year and it's still difficult for him.

He has periods of sleep disturbances (sleepwalking, terrors, other arousal disorder that includes picking at himself and mumbling, and also nighttime vomiting, cyclical, not viral).

I'm sure there are more. Are these things you would tell the neuropsych or will they just make me seem (more) neurotic?

I think most things I've attributed to his just being very asynchronous and a little odd.

UGH!

P.S. This isn't a weird attribute but just because I think it's neat: DS has a "job" this summer working at a friend's law firm as a "clerk." He is going to dress up in grown-up clothes and do some tech-y stuff for them and run things over to the courthouse, entertain clients in waiting room (he is an excellent "host.") It's in a small town outside of ours and he and I are really excited about this.

Eco, your list is exactly the stuff the neuropsych is likely to be interested in.

This kind of information (which just seems "quirky" to us) does help them piece things together.

None of this is "wrong" or "bad" stuff-- just information. Keep breathing!

ETA the job sounds perfect!

Thanks for the advice! I worry that the NP will end up dx'ing ME as a nutcase instead of DS (jk, mostly).

BTW--I am not ignoring your advice and resources, just trying to get my thoughts down on "paper" before going to work this morning. I'm going to look more into the Tony Attwood behavioral system and discuss with DS' therapist. I think it's helpful for the therapist to begin these discussions so DS sees my input as supporting what the "expert" thinks.

eco, one thing I think you'll find with a good neuropsych is that they will pull this info out in the parent interview. Our neuropsych asked so many questions about developmental things that I'd never thought would matter in any way, and used them to help piece together the puzzle of what was up with our ds. FWIW, my ds' developmental milestones were all considered to be within normal range when you look at age-range-charts and by his ped - yet when the neuropsych put it all together, they were at the late age range across the board for motor skills, which was meaningful. When your child is actually going through those stages you are only looking at the development one milestone at a time; it's the broad look back at everything as a global picture that lets a neuropsych piece together whether or not something is indicated in the developmental history. FWIW, my ds who met all his milestones, but on the late side, has relatively severe dyspraxia - and no one saw it *at all* when he was little. But looking back at the broad picture, it was clearly there.


I would not make assumptions about what something *is* but I would make a list to give the neuropsych about anything you think might be meaningful. For instance, if your ds didn't start rubbing his eyes until he was 5, and that's on the late end of the "typical" age range for rubbing one's eyes, and it's also a symptom of "eyes-impacted" disorder - put the "rubbed eyes at age 5" on your list, but don't phrase it as "possible eyes-impacted disorder". The neuropsych wants to know what symptoms your child is displaying and then he/she will put together the big picture of what all the symptoms mean in terms of a diagnosis (or no diagnosis). The rubbing-eyes is a totally bogus example (as far as I know lol!)... but most typical developmental symptoms can be indicative of any number of different diagnoses - our neuropsych likes to show her clients a chart of the overlap in symptoms between ASD, dyspraxia, and ADHD. The number of shared symptoms is really large - which means you need the professional to help sort out what's up.


I'd mention the starting and then stopping, and I'd include the ages that he started and stopped if you remember them - even a ballpark estimate.


Quite a few neurotypical babies are like this too... I have one. Apparently my friends have many more lol. So - I'd include the note about sleep history but not add the note about ASD. Let the neuropsych sort out if it's meaningful or not and if so, what it applies to.


My older dd (nt) was completely freaked out by loud noises. We were also told during a reading screening for a summer program when she was in first grade that she more aware of background noise than any child they'd ever screened. One year later we found out... she couldn't *see*. After she had vision therapy, she no longer was so distracted by loud noises. I'm not suggesting that your ds has vision issues, but just wanted to mention that even issues like this can't easily be deduced to be caused by syndrome "whatever" unless a professional such as a neuropsych is looking in detail at the functioning of the whole child.



I'd mention this. And I can empathize on the exhaustion!


Again, another thing that might mean something in the big picture, or might not. My nt dd is absolutely terrified of spiders. And she's a teenager now.... no sign of ever outgrowing it. And no amount of logic will convince her to not scream her lungs out anytime she thinks she sees one



This was one of those key developmental milestones in our ds that we completely missed - because there were so many velcro shoes in the world, and because school requested velcro shoes for all the kids. He couldn't tie his shoes when he was 8 and saw the neuropsych, and I had no idea that this meant *anything*. So.. put everything down on your list, and don't worry about whether or not it seems obsessive to be mentioning it.


Have you considered the vomiting might be food-related? Allergies or reflux?

Hang in there - you're doing a great job thinking all of this through and seeking out the evaluation.

Best wishes,

polarbear

ps eco - please don't feel like you need to reply to my post - I'm just putting thoughts out for you. I know it can be exhausting to feel like every post needs a reply! Mine don't

My son (does have ASD) hated (hates) to be interrupted mid sentence and has a compulsion to start all over again at the beginning if interrupted. So he is talking and little brother yells good night from another room....he starts over...husband enters the room not knowing we are talking (son is a quiet, slow talker with pauses and one can enter a room and not know that he is talking). He has to start over. You need to ask a question because none of what he is saying makes any sense because you missed a key fact....he can't answer your question and pick back up...sometimes talking with him is painful.

Cookie, it sounds similar but not exactly the same bc (as I recall) it wasn't about being interrupted, but seemed to be more like he'd have trouble with word-finding of lose his train of thought and have to start over. It's been a (long) while.

He also used to sorta "announce" when he needed to say or ask something. "I have a question" instead of just asking...or "I need to tell you something."

Strangely, I'd forgotten about most of these quirks.

I don't have a baby book or anything similar and have really no idea about most of his developmental milestones--except he did walk quite a bit later than my other two--that I remember.

I also remembered today that he used to wander off (actually once got out of the house early in the morning--and was returned by a neighbor--before I realized he wasn't in his bed--OMG).

I also used to tape balloons to the ceiling fan bc he loved watching it spin, that he lined up cars by color instead of playing with them, and also built elaborate, perfectly symmetrical, by color and shape, block structures when he was very young...

I wonder how many things I'll remember? Now I wish I'd kept some sort of baby book.