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    Joined: Apr 2015
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    Originally Posted by cammom
    My DS8 has some social skills deficits that we are addressing through therapy. It is helping him to understand that "other people have thoughts about what we say and do." So basic, but he really did not *get* this concept until social group therapy.
    He can come across as argumentative, defiant, disrespectful, or bothersome-- and it was heartbreaking because he's not truly oppositional and so.... wants to be liked and valued.

    The social therapy is helping him to understand *why* other people react to him in negative ways, and he's starting to be able to adjust his behavior accordingly (the second part will be a long work in progress). Before, DS just did not understand why people weren't onboard with his agenda or why teachers and peers did not appreciate his blunt honesty. For instance, when he did not begin a class assignment on "what I learned my field trip" because "he already knew the stuff being taught, and he didn't learn anything." (literally, he said this to his teacher).
    All of this is sadly familiar. I begin to wonder at myself, sometimes, because I can't argue with the logic of "didn't learn anything" when it could be true. smirk It's almost like we have to raise them to be dishonest/manipulative.

    My son's art teacher gives them worksheets where they are to respond to various famous paintings, similarly subjective. In response to questions like "How does this painting make you feel?" he might answer, "This painting does not make me feel anything." In that class, at least, the requirement is just that the student writes a complete sentence.

    He's tried a little to up his game by writing things like, "It makes me feel sad." But I don't believe him--and those answers seem sadder to me than the honest ones.

    It dawns on me slowly that the reason the teachers have been unable to give me specifics re: behavior this year is because it is a sort of non-specific issue, hard to quantify.

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    cammom, I don't mean to threadjack, but what kind of social group therapy is your son in and how did you find it?

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    Originally Posted by cammom
    For instance, when he did not begin a class assignment on "what I learned my field trip" because "he already knew the stuff being taught, and he didn't learn anything." (literally, he said this to his teacher).

    So you know you are not alone:

    DS7's class just finished a month of study on the ocean. I happen to have a degree in oceanography, and we've always spent a lot of time loving and learning about the ocean in our family. In class, the kids were to create a book about the ocean. DS did a nice job.

    The book was to be given a dedication. Here was DS's touching, but then ... urgh ... dedication: "This book is dedicated to my Mom because she taught me everything I know about the ocean. I didn't learn anything in this book from class."

    Saints be praised - Teacher thought it was funny and acknowledged t was probably true!

    Hang in there everybody,
    Sue

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    Originally Posted by suevv
    Saints be praised - Teacher thought it was funny and acknowledged t was probably true!
    They don't think it's so cute when the child is 12 instead of 7... ha!

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    Originally Posted by eco21268
    All of this is sadly familiar. I begin to wonder at myself, sometimes, because I can't argue with the logic of "didn't learn anything" when it could be true. smirk It's almost like we have to raise them to be dishonest/manipulative.

    Well, no, just to be careful what they say to whom. Everyone has to do this if they want to live in society; people with poor radar have to be extra careful.

    Originally Posted by eco21268
    My son's art teacher gives them worksheets where they are to respond to various famous paintings, similarly subjective. In response to questions like "How does this painting make you feel?" he might answer, "This painting does not make me feel anything." In that class, at least, the requirement is just that the student writes a complete sentence.

    I hate these.

    We are working with DS on "your response does not have to be true, just has to meet the requirement of the assignment." This helps some.

    Originally Posted by eco21268
    It dawns on me slowly that the reason the teachers have been unable to give me specifics re: behavior this year is because it is a sort of non-specific issue, hard to quantify.

    Social skills business is something for which most people have no vocabulary. But you're building good skills.

    And cammom, that social skills class sounds terrific. There is an Australian curriculum that does this too (Secret Agent Society).

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    Originally Posted by eco21268
    This does help, a lot, thank you! The problem with finding a social skills group is the only ones I know about are for kids who have pretty severe cognitive and/or behavioral issues and that's not what we're dealing with at this point. There needs to be one for highly-verbal kids WITH their peers. My son is quite sweet with younger children and wonderful with adults. It's interaction with his own tribe that seems to cause most of the problems.
    My son did a social skills group in 6th & 7th grade that was with other very verbal pre-teens. It was through a local university and for kids with Aspergers and ADHD. But even though DS hasn't been diagnosed with either they accepted him into the program because he was having acute enough social problems at the time to qualify. I feel it did help. It was for kids who were highly verbal and one of the other kids was HG and taking H.S. math and wanted to talk about nothing but math & computer programming.

    Not sure where you would go to find a program like this. The program my son went was attached to a ADHD center at a local university. It's probably easier to find if you are in a large metropolitan area. This group was specifically for pre-teen BOYS. They did a lot of playing board games and word games and it didn't feel like therapy to my son.

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    Originally Posted by eco21268
    All of this is sadly familiar. I begin to wonder at myself, sometimes, because I can't argue with the logic of "didn't learn anything" when it could be true. smirk It's almost like we have to raise them to be dishonest/manipulative.

    On this: we've had conversations about the possibilities of learning in any given situation--not necessarily what the activity or class claims to be teaching you, but -something-, whether it is about yourself as a human being, or understanding other people's perspectives or feelings, or about systems and institutions--so that there is always an attitude of exploration and openness. We're trying to raise reflective, self-aware individuals. And a nice side effect is, boredom is less of a problem, because you can never completely figure out another human being.


    ...pronounced like the long vowel and first letter of the alphabet...
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    Originally Posted by aeh
    Originally Posted by eco21268
    All of this is sadly familiar. I begin to wonder at myself, sometimes, because I can't argue with the logic of "didn't learn anything" when it could be true. smirk It's almost like we have to raise them to be dishonest/manipulative.

    On this: we've had conversations about the possibilities of learning in any given situation--not necessarily what the activity or class claims to be teaching you, but -something-, whether it is about yourself as a human being, or understanding other people's perspectives or feelings, or about systems and institutions--so that there is always an attitude of exploration and openness. We're trying to raise reflective, self-aware individuals. And a nice side effect is, boredom is less of a problem, because you can never completely figure out another human being.

    I think that's a great attitude to cultivate.


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    Originally Posted by DeeDee
    Well, no, just to be careful what they say to whom. Everyone has to do this if they want to live in society; people with poor radar have to be extra careful.
    Good point. I have been considering teaching him about Socrates drinking the hemlock because he thought it was his social/moral obligation. Then I thought that is a little overwrought, perhaps. smile
    Originally Posted by DeeDee
    I hate these.
    I do, too. I hated them even as a child. And I *do* detect some oppositional/defiance in his responses because in real life he is very excitable about aesthetic concerns. There seems to be an emotional block of some sort at school.

    Originally Posted by DeeDee
    We are working with DS on "your response does not have to be true, just has to meet the requirement of the assignment." This helps some.
    I think I'll ask him to imagine what the teacher desires from his response. "What would you feel if you were the sort of person who feels things about things like this, at school?" The mental gymnastics are overwhelming. Not sure how to reach him.
    Originally Posted by bluemagic
    Not sure where you would go to find a program like this. The program my son went was attached to a ADHD center at a local university. It's probably easier to find if you are in a large metropolitan area. This group was specifically for pre-teen BOYS. They did a lot of playing board games and word games and it didn't feel like therapy to my son.
    I don't think we have anything like this near. He is in counseling, now, which I think helps with coping skills but it doesn't help with the social issues because he doesn't behave strangely one-on-one. All I hear is what a cool, interesting, smart guy he is. It's hard to explain this to someone who doesn't see it--I even have trouble understanding bc it's context specific.
    Originally Posted by aeh
    On this: we've had conversations about the possibilities of learning in any given situation--not necessarily what the activity or class claims to be teaching you, but -something-, whether it is about yourself as a human being, or understanding other people's perspectives or feelings, or about systems and institutions--so that there is always an attitude of exploration and openness. We're trying to raise reflective, self-aware individuals. And a nice side effect is, boredom is less of a problem, because you can never completely figure out another human being.
    This is a lovely frame. I will give it a try. smile

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    [spoiler][/spoiler]
    Originally Posted by ultramarina
    cammom, I don't mean to threadjack, but what kind of social group therapy is your son in and how did you find it?

    DS goes to a speech and language center. They found us during a routine school screening:) they use the Michelle Garcia model. We love it- my son has made good friends with the other children in the group. It came at a time when his self esteem was low-- he finally met some kids he could relate with and who also struggle. He knows he's not alone. I really believe for my DS that whether kids are academic peers or not, he loves to be with people who value him. It doesn't matter to him whether they are talking about video games or physics.

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