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    Joined: May 2015
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    I was hoping to get some objective input from you all regarding school choice for my gifted son. Here's our situation -- we're moving and my gifted son will be going into fourth grade. We've moved a lot and this will be the fourth (yes 4th) elementary school he has attended. He's been identified as gifted in each school he's been in so I assume the same will be true in the next one. I also have a daughter who is probably not gifted and will be starting first grade. She's very social and will likely do well wherever she lands.

    Here are the choices we have open to us.

    1. Regular K-5 neighborhood school with pull out math/reading. This is the kind of school he has attended so far and has been a welcome way to quickly integrate into the local community. My son has had both fantastic and mediocre experiences. It all depends on the teacher.

    2. K-5 gifted-only magnet school. Unfortunately this is in a town where people pay for coaching so their preschoolers will test into gifted programs. And brag about it. I'm not a fan of being around people who think of giftedness as a symbol of social status.

    3. K-8 Open Classroom style multi-age classroom charter school with no gifted program. The principal does not believe in a program for gifted kids since the kids have a lot of freedom to design their own curriculum based on their own interests. The academics are weak by regular testing measures though they do cover the Common Core requirements. Parents are required to put in a lot of classroom volunteer time which I see as a plus.

    My son tends toward introversion but has so far managed to make a solid little group of buddies at each school and through sports. At this point I am leaning toward the K-8 so that he can at least be in the same building with the same kids for a few years. It would be putting the social aspect ahead of academics. So, do you think it is easier to compensate for poor academics than it is for the social development or vice-versa? I have had minimal problems with my son acting out in boring classes, but that might be related to constantly being the "new" kid.

    Thanks for any advice or your honest opinion.


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    Originally Posted by Mama Cas
    2. K-5 gifted-only magnet school. Unfortunately this is in a town where people pay for coaching so their preschoolers will test into gifted programs. And brag about it. I'm not a fan of being around people who think of giftedness as a symbol of social status.
    Test prep, short of outright cheating (obtaining a test form in advance, for example), usually does not raise scores drastically. Suppose the IQ test cutoff is 130 for this school, and half the kids are really 120+ IQ kids who have been coached and the other half are genuine 130+ IQ kids. The average IQ will still be higher than in the regular public schools, so this is where I would want to send a gifted child.

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    I would at least visit the GT school before you write it off. If your DS feels comfortable being there and the overall atmosphere is warm and positive, I wouldn't let the presence of overzealous parents be the determining factor. I'm sure not all of them are status-seeking parents who did everything in their power to inflate their children's scores.

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    There are pros/cons.

    Originally Posted by Mama Cas
    1. Regular K-5 neighborhood school with pull out math/reading. This is the kind of school he has attended so far and has been a welcome way to quickly integrate into the local community. My son has had both fantastic and mediocre experiences. It all depends on the teacher.
    I see some social advantages to this. But as your son will be entering 4th grade and you sound like you are hoping to stay a few years this time I would look ahead, what are the options for junior high/6th grade? I think this could be hit or miss depending on the teacher and peer group.

    Originally Posted by Mama Cas
    2. K-5 gifted-only magnet school. Unfortunately this is in a town where people pay for coaching so their preschoolers will test into gifted programs. And brag about it. I'm not a fan of being around people who think of giftedness as a symbol of social status.

    What do they do that is different than the first option? How will this school meet your son's needs that the other don't. Do they do math faster, or at grade above other schools? Do they have a lot more homework than the other schools? What books are they reading for language arts? Do they still work lock step on the same 'above' grade level work?

    Originally Posted by Mama Cas
    3. K-8 Open Classroom style multi-age classroom charter school with no gifted program. The principal does not believe in a program for gifted kids since the kids have a lot of freedom to design their own curriculum based on their own interests. The academics are weak by regular testing measures though they do cover the Common Core requirements. Parents are required to put in a lot of classroom volunteer time which I see as a plus.
    Could be good but I'm concerned about the weak academics. What do students do when they max out the the curriculum. For example in math. Are there opportunities for students to take High School level math? This might be a good fit in 4th & 5th but not such a great fit in 8th grade. Does this mean that students work independently or they choose in groups what they want to work on. Do they do lots of group work.

    Can you talk with the parents of students who attend the various schools. Have you had a chance to visit any of these schools.

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    Originally Posted by Mama Cas
    3. K-8 Open Classroom style multi-age classroom charter school with no gifted program. The principal does not believe in a program for gifted kids since the kids have a lot of freedom to design their own curriculum based on their own interests. The academics are weak by regular testing measures though they do cover the Common Core requirements. Parents are required to put in a lot of classroom volunteer time which I see as a plus.

    I actually see a lot of red flags here - but they are all based on my experience, where I live, with the local schools here. Anyway, these are the things I've found in a semi-similar school situation:

    1) If parents are required to put in a lot of classroom time - it can be a red flag that the school really doesn't have the resources to offer the qualify of education you might be hoping for for your child. It's great to be at a school where parents *willingly* put in a lot of time and feel included as part of the school community, but when it's an expectation, quality isn't always there, the actual expectation can turn into more than is advertised, and chances are good it's only going to be a portion of the total parent population that contributes, which can get to be stressful if the school is really truly dependent upon parent volunteer help.

    2) I wouldn't choose a school with weak academics when you know from the start the academics are weak. I wouldn't choose that for either of my kids - gifted or not.

    3) My kids have been in programs where they had the freedom to design their own curriculum to a certain extent - and they didn't work out as advertised. This *might* work out ok but I'd do a lot of research into what other family's experiences have been with the school - try to talk to people who've left the school as well as people who are currently at the school. The other side of this - I thought this type of flexible curriculum would be *great* in elementary school for my EG kiddo, and he really never got into it. He was much happier when he transferred back into a college-prep high-expectations structured academics school in 5th grade - even though it wasn't really all he needed for academics - he just preferred it to the school that had less structure. Again, very dependent on school and child's personality.

    4) Teachers make all the difference in the world.

    5) If you're interested in the opportunity to work with kids of different age levels, we've found that there are some elementary schools where this happens anyway.

    6) I wouldn't worry too much about having to change schools again after 5th grade - in most neighborhood schools (and most gifted magnet programs I've known of), the kids who were together in elementary go together to a common middle school, so he'd still have friends he made in 5th grade with him. And also wouldn't discount the value of switching to a program that works as reason enough to switch anyway - I don't know how past school changes have gone for your ds, but my ds has switched schools "cold turkey" twice - where he didn't know anyone in the new school - and the switch wasn't because we moved, but because he had an opportunity that he wanted to pursue in a school that would be more academically challenging. He's not outgoing and doesn't make new friends easily, but he was very happy he'd made the switch both times for the academics.

    I also wouldn't count out the magnet school simply because it's highly populated with high achievers vs high IQ kids. Being in a classroom with high achievers only is going to most likely be higher-paced overall than the regular neighborhood school and the classroom makeup will most likely be such that the regular classroom teacher (in the HG school) will have more time to teach and less time devoted to kids who are having issues or need help with very basic concepts. This did make a big difference to my EG ds. OTOH, I'd check and make sure that the school differentiates in math and LA if you are able to get that at the neighborhood school.

    Hope some of my rambling made sense!

    Good luck with whatever you decide smile

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    Option 1) If mediocre is your worst experience, then that's not too bad. I agree with your assessment that teachers make all the difference. Another benefit: it cuts off at 5th grade, meaning he gets to go to middle school soon.

    Option 2) Agree with a previous poster: find out what the difference is between this school, and option 1. Regardless of whether the kids are coached or not, this could still be a fantastic option for your child. My major beef with the kind of situation in option 1 is poor social studies and science... a gifted magnet can do better. It may not.

    Option 3) I'm not a fan of asking 4th graders to design their own curriculum, because they generally don't know enough about the world to know what they need to know. So when you tell me their test scores are low, color me unsurprised.

    In your shoes, I would eliminate option 3, and start vetting 1 and 2.

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    When you say your second is probably not gifted, what makes you say that? The reason I ask is because I've seen a lot of people make that assumption about a subsequent kid only to find out that they actually are as gifted (sometimes even more so) than their older sibling but present radically differently.

    Last edited by George C; 05/04/15 09:33 PM.
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    Thanks for all your responses -- I plan to steal all your questions to use during upcoming school visits ;-) I would really appreciate hearing about gifted kids' social experiences, particularly from people who have been uprooted often or had to deal with difficult life circumstances.

    My information about the new community comes second hand from relatives in the area who have their kids in neighborhood schools. Sorry if I touched a nerve regarding gifted parents -- I know it's a very, very small percentage (same in sports, music, arts) who fit the nutty helicopter profile.

    His current teachers suggested that regardless of school the two most important things to look for are 1. low student to teacher ratio and 2. a school with a good "vibe" -- when you tour what are the students doing and how are the interactions with other students and teachers, and even quality of the facility itself.

    My son checks in with a therapist on occasion due to anxiety -- he's been through a lot that has nothing to do with being gifted. Her recommendation is to put him in a school with less structure as in the open school. However, I have to say that if my son was completely free to design his own curriculum a large part of it would be blowing stuff up, NHL analysis and eating chocolate chip cookies. OTOH teachers that are receptive to significant parent involvement would be sort of new and exciting for us, particularly with regards to math or choosing what books or history to study.

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    Originally Posted by George C
    When you say your second is probably not gifted, what makes you say that? The reason I ask is because I've seen a lot of people make that assumption about a subsequent kid only to find out that they actually as gifted (sometimes even more so) that their older sibling but present radically differently.

    Heartily second this, and it goes extra when second child is a social girl.


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