Gifted Bulletin Board

Welcome to the Gifted Issues Discussion Forum.

We invite you to share your experiences and to post information about advocacy, research and other gifted education issues on this free public discussion forum.
CLICK HERE to Log In. Click here for the Board Rules.

Links


Learn about Davidson Academy Online - for profoundly gifted students living anywhere in the U.S. & Canada.

The Davidson Institute is a national nonprofit dedicated to supporting profoundly gifted students through the following programs:

  • Fellows Scholarship
  • Young Scholars
  • Davidson Academy
  • THINK Summer Institute

  • Subscribe to the Davidson Institute's eNews-Update Newsletter >

    Free Gifted Resources & Guides >

    Who's Online Now
    0 members (), 210 guests, and 14 robots.
    Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
    Newest Members
    streble, DeliciousPizza, prominentdigitiz, parentologyco, Smartlady60
    11,413 Registered Users
    March
    S M T W T F S
    1 2
    3 4 5 6 7 8 9
    10 11 12 13 14 15 16
    17 18 19 20 21 22 23
    24 25 26 27 28 29 30
    31
    Previous Thread
    Next Thread
    Print Thread
    Page 3 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,453
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,453
    Personally, I am just happy that my DD10 got out of bed and went into the kitchen and started making herself breakfast this morning when her alarm clock went off.

    We have been working on her becoming more independent lately in anticipation attending a residential camp in July so the alarm clock is one of the tools that we are using.

    It used to take dynamite almost to get her out of bed.

    Baby steps, baby steps...

    Last edited by madeinuk; 04/28/15 10:26 AM.

    Become what you are
    Joined: Aug 2010
    Posts: 3,428
    U
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    U
    Joined: Aug 2010
    Posts: 3,428
    Hey, I'm very impressed that your 10yo got herself out of bed and made herself breakfast. My 11yo only does that on weekends! wink

    Joined: Sep 2013
    Posts: 816
    L
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    L
    Joined: Sep 2013
    Posts: 816
    Originally Posted by stemfun
    How does one reconcile all this information on Executive Function with the research that says that highly gifted children start out with "a relatively thinner cortex", than peers "that thickened rapidly, peaking by age 11 or 12 before thinning" http://www.nimh.nih.gov/news/science-news/2006/cortex-matures-faster-in-youth-with-highest-iq.shtml

    "The researchers found that the relationship between cortex thickness and IQ varied with age, particularly in the prefrontal cortex, seat of abstract reasoning, planning, and other "executive" functions".

    Based on this research one will expect that most highly gifted children will not demonstrate high EF before the age on 11 or 12 and that most kids with high EF before this age will not be highly gifted kids. I wonder if that is the experience of most parents on this board?

    I've read this before and wondered about it myself! DYS DD9 STILL lacks the EF skills I'd like to see (I'd say she, too, might even lag behind agemates in certain aspects of EF). She probably would have flunked the marshmallow test at 4 (might even flunk it today). Yet, she is clearly bright and high achieving. Her EF, skills, though are enough to keep me up at night worrying. HK and others...what helped???

    Joined: Feb 2012
    Posts: 1,390
    E
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    E
    Joined: Feb 2012
    Posts: 1,390
    Originally Posted by Loy58
    HK and others...what helped???


    I'm sorry to report that for us, nothing really helped but waiting it out. Well, that and maybe adding melatonin so that she would actually sleep at night. I think that she used to be chronically sleep deprived and she isn't any more.

    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 5,181
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 5,181
    In our case, we coached, and we cajoled, we scaffolded, we scolded, and finally-- we kept placing things under load...

    that is, we kept DEMANDING that she use whatever EF she could bring to bear on things in her life.

    I think, having worked with late adolescents, that this part of things is the key-- if you do it FOR them, then they may never really develop EF.

    (And btw, in support of this hypothesis, I offer the well-known sequelae of special needs parents who "over" parent with the best of intentions, and wind up with adult children who CANNOT manage because they've learned helplessness).


    When YOU have to figure it out, and there are consequences for not getting it right... well, that's when you start to use your brain to figure out work-arounds, to exercise those particular skills, reinforce what works, eliminate what doesn't, etc.

    I like the two books below, also (in terms of discussing EF, particular detail within that domain, relative strengths and weaknesses, and planning for working with what you have):

    Late, Lost, and Unprepared
    and
    Smart but Scattered

    I found both to be helpful to me. The latter more than the former, at least for a NT child.


    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
    Joined: Oct 2011
    Posts: 2,856
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Oct 2011
    Posts: 2,856
    My DD10 took a quantum leap in EF 18mos ago due to necessity and internal drive. Given the grade skip we'd been working on for years, and facing teachers who were openly prejudiced against her for that skip, expecting her to fail, DD set about proving them wrong. She took control of all her assignments and homework, and managed to get all of it in early or on time, with almost no supervision by DW and I. Since then, she has even pushed us away from helping on spelling/vocabulary studying.

    Before then, we had to be active managers of her homework, and especially the more complicated projects, or she'd procrastinate until the last night, then melt down and cry for help.

    Joined: Aug 2012
    Posts: 381
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Aug 2012
    Posts: 381
    I have been clinging to that cortex thickness study like a lifeline for 4 years. We've tried everything, and keep on trying. Truly, though, nothing has materially helped DS7.5 with his executive function, particularly in moments when he needs it most. But in the past 6 months, I begin to see a light at the end of the tunnel. I'm hoping that in 12-18 months, we look back and say "phew" - at least a little - rather than saying - "oh, that light at the end of the tunnel was an oncoming train" wink.

    Joined: Sep 2013
    Posts: 816
    L
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    L
    Joined: Sep 2013
    Posts: 816
    Originally Posted by Dude
    we had to be active managers of her homework, and especially the more complicated projects, or she'd procrastinate until the last night, then melt down and cry for help.

    Yep. Sounds very familiar. She definitely wants to take the reigns on deciding when and how to do assignments (and resists oversight), but she just seems to lack time management skills. Procrastination makes homework a nightmare. Waiting for the quantum leap to happen...

    Joined: Oct 2011
    Posts: 2,856
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Oct 2011
    Posts: 2,856
    Originally Posted by Loy58
    Originally Posted by Dude
    we had to be active managers of her homework, and especially the more complicated projects, or she'd procrastinate until the last night, then melt down and cry for help.

    Yep. Sounds very familiar. She definitely wants to take the reigns on deciding when and how to do assignments (and resists oversight), but she just seems to lack time management skills. Procrastination makes homework a nightmare. Waiting for the quantum leap to happen...

    Like HK said, it wasn't so much a case of waiting for it to happen, it was her being in a situation where her EF was put under load.

    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 2,035
    P
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    P
    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 2,035
    Originally Posted by aeh
    Originally Posted by Bostonian
    Originally Posted by polarbear
    Isn't executive function somewhat absent by default in 4 year olds?
    It is lower on average than in older children and adults, but differences in self-control in 4-year-olds on the Marshmallow Test predicted later outcomes. Walter Mischel has a recent book The Marshmallow Test: Mastering Self-Control (2014).

    http://www.apa.org/monitor/2014/12/marshmallow-test.aspx
    Quote
    In a series of studies that began in the late 1960s and continue today, psychologist Walter Mischel, PhD, found that children who, as 4-year-olds, could resist a tempting marshmallow placed in front of them, and instead hold out for a larger reward in the future (two marshmallows), became adults who were more likely to finish college and earn higher incomes, and were less likely to become overweight.
    So what's the lesson to take from this? It's not that the marshmallow test is destiny and that preschoolers who fail it are doomed, Mischel says. Instead, the good news is that the strategies the successful preschoolers used can be taught to people of all ages. By harnessing the power of executive function and self-control strategies, we can all improve our ability to achieve our goals.

    I wonder how to reconcile these assertions with the paper I cited finding that differences in executive function are genetic.

    I thought the book Willpower: Rediscovering the Greatest Human Strength (2012) by Roy F. Baumeister and John Tierney was good.

    And what's even more interesting is follow-ups that have been done with the marshmallow test that find that adults can influence child behavior/impulse control on the marshmallow test with their own behavior. One factor is the reliability of the adult's behavior/promises. In one variant, the adult makes a promise to the child ("I have a big box of art materials that you can use"), and keeps it, while in the alternate condition, the adult breaks the promise ("I'm sorry, it looks like someone borrowed my art box, but you can have these four crayons, instead."). Those children who experienced the reliable adult were able to hold out significantly longer than the children who were disappointed.

    These findings are interpreted as meaning that children who experience the world (that is, adult caregivers) as reliable and predictable can afford to delay gratification, while those in unpredictable environments must take what they can, while they can.


    I have always thought that test said more about the child's life than anything else. if the child has experienced frequent broken promises or food shortages then eating the marshmallow now is just applying 'a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush'. And kids from unsettled (or downright abusive) and impoverished homes tend to do less well academically and career wise.

    Page 3 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

    Moderated by  M-Moderator, Mark D. 

    Link Copied to Clipboard
    Recent Posts
    Testing with accommodations
    by aeh - 03/27/24 01:58 PM
    Quotations that resonate with gifted people
    by indigo - 03/27/24 12:38 PM
    New, and you'd think I'd have a clue...
    by astronomama - 03/24/24 06:01 AM
    For those interested in astronomy, eclipses...
    by indigo - 03/23/24 06:11 PM
    Son 2e, wide discrepancy between CogAT-Terranova
    by astronomama - 03/23/24 07:21 AM
    Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5