Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional new thread, 504 questions

The most significant thing I can think of that could occur in the classroom, is providing a seat near the teacher and maybe allowing him to go somewhere else (quiet) for tests? Sadly, the two best days of his life at school seem to have been when he went to ISS (3rd grade, and last week). It was so quiet and peaceful! He really likes to socialize but doesn't seem to have any savvy about when to STOP. And switching gears for him is painfully slow.

I agree. I've started an informal curriculum on my own (ha!). For instance--last night was band Spring Concert and the trumpets got off to a really bad start...we have it on video. He played it over and over last night. We were all cracking up about it (well, it was funny! trumpets can make some really strange sounds!)

So I told him that even though it was funny...it might hurt someone's feelings if he teased them about it. I reminded him of something that hurt his feelings really badly, once (a substitute told him he'd be "flipping burgers" for a career. He was devastated). I told him that even though it wouldn't bother him if someone teased him about blowing a bad note, some people would be sensitive to that and it might hurt their feelings.

His response? Well...it wouldn't bother me. UGH. And it wouldn't! He did agree to put the "Trumpet Incident" off the table, as far as joke fodder.

Does that sound like autistic type social unawareness?

Maybe this is manipulative, but I'm not sure I care any more, to tell the truth: I am thinking that having the OT identify sensory issues is kind of a back door into Special Ed. Since there has been no success getting evaluation through the district. I'm beginning to think the only way to keep him in this program is if they are afraid of kicking him out.

I guess I need to find a behavior analyst! I don't even know what that is. There is an awful lot to learn, isn't there?

It's a trick, trying to sort it all out. I agree: it's the behaviors, first and foremost. And secondly, it's his organization/attention. I have a feeling the teachers would be more willing to work on the second, if the first was improved.

I didn't fill out anything, including a consent form! Maybe it was implied when I signed the 504, ordering OT eval?


I haven't been in touch with school psychologist. I plan to ask for the FBA once neuropsych eval is done. But that will probably be after school is out. My son is "almost" failing two subjects, but evidently--that won't count, because his courses are accelerated. Achievement tests are all in the 90-99th percentiles.

The neuropsych gave me the parent BRIEF, and I think she's sending it to school, too. I have to say: I found my answers horrifying. But not as horrifying as the ABAS (I think that's what it's called?) I can't decide if I'm just the laziest parent ever or I've adapted to my son.

I just received the OT report! May have to post to see if anyone can understand it.

Here is some of the report. I guess the sensory stuff is completely based off teacher report. I was hoping there was some sort of formal testing.


VMI Visual Perception Motor Coordination
Raw Scores 29 30 30
Standard Scores 112 114 113
Percentiles 79 81 81
Score Interpretation Above Average Above Average Above Average

Test Interpretation:
As you can see from the above results, XXX scored above average in all areas assessed on the VMI. He only missed one image on the visual motor integration test and did not miss any on the visual perception and motor coordination subtests.

Sensory Profile

Quadrant Raw Score Performance
Registration 39/85 Definite Difference
Seeking 35/60 Probable Difference
Sensitivity 49/80 Definite Difference
Avoiding 50/85 Definite Difference

Section Raw Score Performance
Auditory 26/50 Definite Difference
Visual 21/55 Definite Difference
Movement 37/70 Definite Difference
Touch 44/60 Definite Difference
Behavior 43/75 Definite Difference

Test Interpretation:
According to the Sensory Profile completed by his teacher, XXX scored Definite Difference in most areas of sensory processing. Some of the behaviors pointed out by the questionnaire were that XXX misses oral directions in class, he seems oblivious in an active environment, he is bothered by loud or unexpected noises, he misses written or demonstrated directions, he will look away from tasks to notice other activity around him, he is easily startled, he appears awkward and clumsy in movements, he is slow to participate in physical activities, he is inefficient in completing tasks and he can be stubborn and uncooperative.

Assessment was completed in a one to one environment, so a lot of the above mentioned behaviors were not observed during assessment. XXX did demonstrate poor posture as he leaned over table to complete writing tasks, but he willingly completed all tasks asked of him and demonstrated good attention to task.

Hi eco,

I've been skimming along reading about your trials. How consistent are these behaviors to what you see at home?

Which teacher filled this out? Please ask to do the sensory profile survey as a parent as well. We've made the most progress during horrible years by discussing the differences between behavior at home and at school as highlighted by these surveys. Of course, you've already seen the scores, which will call your results into question. I might also consider asking a teacher that your son is successful with to fill out the survey.

Oh. We've done this one. The teacher report and the OT's interpretation can indeed be a way of saying "I don't like this kid, he behaves in ways that are unexpected and I disapprove."

I echo what Geo said. I would also ask the neuropsych to respond to and contextualize these results in the report.

I seriously doubt that "sensory difference" is driving what's happening here. Eyes on the prize.

Yeah, after processing it a bit (hee hee), that's kind of what I'm wondering. With scores this low, it's a wonder he can feed himself.

He *does* have some issues with noise. I had to keep him home one day this year because a teacher had announced there was a fire drill the next day and he kind of went into hysterics over it. Alarms are a long-standing problem. But I have conceptualized that as anxiety.

Hi eco,

I've also been following your thread but haven't had a chance to respond. Please don't feel like you're taking up "too much space" on the forum - that's what's great about posting here, there are other 2e parents who understand. If you searched through old posts you'd most likely find that most of us who respond have had our own periods of uber-posting when our kids were facing a tough situation at school or in life

Re everything, ita with DeeDee and Geofizz on everything they've replied/posted.

I'm also curious about the teacher who filled out the sensory eval - was that the art teacher or a different teacher? Any type of behavior-related assessment should be completed by more than one person, and by adults who are observing the child in more than one "domain" - i.e., a parent should have input in addition to school personnel, and the professional who is evaluating the combined evals should be able to have a sense of how behavior differs from home to school. I would also be vary wary of having just one teacher fill out the form, especially a teacher who appears to not like your ds and who's had issues with other kids at school.

A comment made by the principal somewhere upthread leaves me with the gut feeling the principal isn't going to let your ds get kicked out of this program, and it's possible he's had other parents who've had issues with this same teacher. You should be having a team meeting in the very near future at school to update your ds' 504 plan - when you do, request that the sensory eval, if it's used, is completed by ds' other teachers and any other school staff that works closely with him, as well as by *you* and your spouse or ds' dad or any other adult who spends a considerable amount of time with your ds.

Re sensory issues, I do believe that sensory interventions can help, but strongly feel (really strongly!) that most often what appears to be a sensory issue has an underlying root cause. One of my dds was diagnosed with sensory processing issues when she was young, and she went through around a year of sensory OT, and it really did help - a lot. It gave her coping mechanisms that worked to reduce anxiety and that was very significant. She'd been unable to sit still while working at school, and she had difficulty with audio-overload, couldn't hear the person talking directly to her because she heard other classroom background noises so loudly. The sensory OT really did help with that... but... and this is a huge "but"... the root issue wasn't an audio issue or an anxiety issue or anything that the sensory therapy addressed - all it did was give her ways to cope with things that were bi-products of the real issue - she couldn't see and we didn't realize it. Once we had the real issue figured out and treated/accommodated, the "sensory" issues disappeared.

I believe that sensory challenges are very real, just firmly believe that it's important to understand the whole functioning of a child first, and make a forward plan from there, rather than tackling things piecemeal and trying to apply a sensory "bandage" to what is an underlying challenge.

You have a 504 plan now, but have you considered requesting an IEP evaluation?
I am going to look upthread, then return and make a suggestion if you haven't.

Best wishes,

polarbear

OK, I didn't see IEP mentioned anywhere, so I'd consider asking for an IEP eligibility assessment, unless you're satisfied with an update to accommodations on your ds' 504. The primary reason I'd suggest an IEP eligibility evaluation is that I think it would be helpful in understanding your ds' behavior in class to have an SLP eval as well as possibly the cognitive vs achievement testing.

Your school is functioning a bit differently than the schools my kids have been in, so I don't know if you might be able to get an SLP's input without the IEP eligibility process - our schools would never have provided an OT eval without going through the IEP process, so it sounds like you have a school that is a bit more reasonable in working to meet the needs of students, which is a good thing!

Why an SLP assessment? I just wonder if your ds perhaps doesn't have some challenges with either receptive or expressive language. They can both be extremely subtle but also extremely frustrating for children and they also can result in what looks like behavioral challenges. Anyway, I could be way off base and I'm not a professional I'm just a parent - but it's one thing I'd wonder about.

Hang in there and let us know how everything is going!

Best wishes,

polarbear

I have asked--once in 3rd and again this year. Both times it was refused. The Process Coordinator this year told me (in response to my question) that they have rarely had a child in this program with an IEP.

I asked the school counselor this year if there was any upside to just letting DS fail so we could get evaluation--she said no, bc courses are accelerated, it wouldn't help.

Did you ask in writing or ask verbally?

Also, fwiw, which is most likely obvious, just because the program hasn't had "many" children with IEPs doesn't mean that a child in the program doesn't need or wouldn't benefit from one. I'd also be wary (well, I would be wary here in my children's school ) that the "not many" wasn't an accurate statement but was meant to dissuade a parent from pursuing a process that takes time and paperwork.

Did they give you any other reason for why the process was refused? And did they refuse the eligibility assessment process or did they go through the process and find him not eligible for an IEP?

Gotta run, will be back later

polarbear