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    #214965 04/25/15 08:25 PM
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    Does anyone know what percentage of the gifted population is dyslexic. I read something recently that mentioned that the average IQ of dyslexic children is higher than the general population, so it made me wonder if the gifted dyslexic population is higher than the general dyslexic population.

    HID #214998 04/26/15 10:34 AM
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    Citations that mention the average IQ of the dyslexic population may not be accounting for the definition of dyslexic, which is still quite controversial (at the psychometric level, that is). Historically, by definition, a dyslexic must be at least average in overall intelligence (no dual diagnoses for those below average), which would mean that the average IQ of the dyslexic population is, again, by definition, above that of the general population. (Since all below-average IQs are systematically excluded.)

    Others believe that there are learners whose global cognition is slightly-to-significantly below average, who have focal deficits in basic reading skills that could be described as dyslexic. If we include them into the statistics, the average intelligence of the dyslexic population might be equal to or lower than the general population. Those who take this position have historically been in the minority.


    ...pronounced like the long vowel and first letter of the alphabet...
    aeh #215000 04/26/15 12:44 PM
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    Well, it sounds like there is no definitive answer. I've been reading The Dyslexic Advantage and it made me wonder about how my school district has been identifying gifted students and if it misses a lot of dyslexic-gifted.

    Sometimes a question unanswered is much more intriguing, so I will keep thinking.

    HID #215001 04/26/15 01:26 PM
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    I've seen some research (poster presentations, mostly, but I might find published journal articles, too, if I looked for them) on systematic underidentification of giftedness among students with LDs, including dyslexia. The field is still struggling with designing and implementing best practices in this area. There are many unanswered questions; you could probably build a dissertation, or two, or fifty out of answering them.

    I probably find a previously-unidentified GT/dyslexic every other year or so, among my secondary students. This doesn't even include the ones who are still skating by, and don't rise to my attention.


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    aeh #215007 04/26/15 06:47 PM
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    I'm especially interested in this topic lately because I believe that my DD is dyslexic (and probably me as well). Thankfully she was able to be identified gifted by the school district, but I suspect she is higher LOG than anyone on the outside could see. I think of her as my iceberg. My district is working on changing the identification assessment tools and I am on an advisory committee that has the opportunity to put my two cents in. I'm not a professional in this field but an interested parent. I feel that the GATE program has become more of a high achiever program and that the method of identification has contributed to that.

    HID #215020 04/27/15 07:46 AM
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    Originally Posted by HID
    I'm especially interested in this topic lately because I believe that my DD is dyslexic (and probably me as well).

    Have you considered having her assessed privately? Although dyslexia can be quite stealth, especially in 2e kids, we found that private assessments really helped us understand what was the issue with our 2e dd, who has a challenge that impacts reading. She's diagnosed as dyslexic, but it's not conventional dyslexia. The private assessments that she had also weren't terribly expensive - rather than a full neuropsych she had testing through a private reading specialist.

    Quote
    My district is working on changing the identification assessment tools and I am on an advisory committee that has the opportunity to put my two cents in. I'm not a professional in this field but an interested parent.[quote]

    Have you thought about possibly interviewing local professionals? Having had my own dds both go through school assessments and private, I've seen quite a difference here between school screenings and private assessments. Note - school staff clearly don't have the time available to do full screenings on every child, but I also suspect that if you look closely you'll be able to find suggestions to help make it possible to id some of the kids who are currently slipping under the radar.

    FWIW, these are a few of my thoughts on some of the different types of assessments my dds have had - just food for thought for you:

    * My dyslexic dd's WISC profile isn't exactly interpretable as clearly "dyslexic" yet the impact of her reading challenge shows up all over the place on her WISC subtests. (This is the WISC-IV, WISC-V might be different.)

    * There is a big roadblock that exists in the classroom in our district before students ever get to the reading specialist at schools here. The teacher first has to see the need and then has to make a recommendation. My oldest dd was suspected of having a reading challenge by her first grade teacher, but never referred for an eval - yet she was behind enough that she *was* given an ok/referral to attend summer school, which (here) is reserved for students who are struggling in reading in the lower percentile of classroom performance.

    * Our district also has the intense reading programs required by dyslexics situated in just a few elementary schools (which makes sense due to # of students who need to be served by those programs)... but one of the side impacts of this is that the people who are really the district's reading specialists and experts at identifying children who have reading challenges never screen kids at other elementary schools - so kids at schools who don't house the special reading programs don't get the districts "expert eval". It would help (here) if the district had just 1-2 people who were trained to be the experts at screening and eval, and those teachers "traveled" between schools for assessments.

    * My older dd didn't actually have a reading challenge - she had a severe vision issue that didn't show up on a conventional eye exam. There were two simple screens included in her developmental optometry eval that I think could be done easily and quickly across all students in early elementary that would show pretty easily a significant portion of children who are having trouble learning to read due to tracking/etc vision issues: one takes about 1 minute and, for my dd, revealed severe double vision; the other might take 2 minutes top, and can show that eyes aren't tracking with each other.

    * I would think that it might be useful to have all parents fill out a very simple questionnaire just once when their kids start school asking if there is a family history of dyslexia/dysgraphia/dyscalculia. It's been shown that these three "Ds" can occur in families - and it's *very* true for my family. At this point in time, when a teacher notices a student is behind in reading ability at the beginning of first grade (in our local schools), the teacher might make note of it but more often than not will consider it to be "developmental" noting that reading is a skill that happens across a broad swath of ages/grade levels. No one here worries for a nano-second until the student hits 3rd grade and is obviously struggling. If a teacher knew a student had a family history of dyslexia, they might put more consideration into recommending the student for screening.

    [quote]I feel that the GATE program has become more of a high achiever program and that the method of identification has contributed to that.

    This is a second (and different) thing to tackle from the id'ing of dyslexia issue. It's really exciting that you get to be a part of a committee that can recommend change smile I think that it's really common from what I've read and also experienced to see gifted programs in schools become streamlined into what is "easy" to id as gifted. It's never going to be practical to give a WISC to every student who might qualify (including kids who don't "look" or perform as gifted). For instance, when my school district screens using a fairly-widely-used learned ability test, only the verbal portion is given, so any kid who would have qualified based on either non-verbal or an average of verbal and non-verbal, but isn't strongest in verbal isn't going to be given any further screening (unless they have a parent who is on top of things and makes a case for further consideration and eval).

    Back to your original question - I don't have an answer for you, but I have heard many times what aeh said above. I think that when you're advocating, it might be potentially more useful to focus on finding articles/research/etc that shows the chances of a 2e child having dyslexia go undiagnosed, or articles on how dyslexia presents in gifted children, rather than trying to put a lot of effort into proving that there is a higher percentage of dyslexic people in the gifted population. Whether or not it's one child or 50000 that are truly dyslexic, the school district needs to understand how it presents and how to screen so as to not miss it.

    Good luck with your advocacy! Let us know how it goes smile

    polarbear

    HID #215036 04/27/15 11:26 AM
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    The dyslexic population is most assuredly greater than the population identified as dyslexic (SLD) in a school setting.

    I'm the parent of two unconventional dyslexics that are also gifted. In both cases, we've been "fortunate" that the giftedness trumped the disabilities early and they placed into the gifted program. Of course, that's "fortunate" because it wasn't until 4th grade that their disabilities came to a head and lead to appropriate intervention services. Better, of course, would have to identified the dyslexia when I brought the concerns forward in 2nd (1st kid) and kindergarten (2nd kid), but was brushed off because she's weird (1st kid) and OMG LOOK AT THAT MATH (2nd kid).

    My DD recently had to pull together a family trait for a genetics lesson easily traceable across generations. I suggested "terrible speller" as a family trait. This has been something I've experienced as well -- grade skipped, radically accelerated in math, and "if you're so smart, why don't you just proofread?!"

    Originally Posted by HID
    I'm especially interested in this topic lately because I believe that my DD is dyslexic (and probably me as well). Thankfully she was able to be identified gifted by the school district, but I suspect she is higher LOG than anyone on the outside could see. I think of her as my iceberg. My district is working on changing the identification assessment tools and I am on an advisory committee that has the opportunity to put my two cents in. I'm not a professional in this field but an interested parent. I feel that the GATE program has become more of a high achiever program and that the method of identification has contributed to that.

    What a great opportunity to make a difference. When I've felt as though the school district is listening, I suggest:
    *multiple entrance methods: A kid can enter with observations from teachers (HIGHLY biased towards age, socio-economic status, good behavior) but also from test scores WITHOUT the need for those checklists.
    *multiple onramps: kids can be ID'd in kindergarten or in 12th grade or anytime in between. Interventions must take into account the multiple onramps (e.g. "if you don't hit a bar here for math by the end of 3rd grade, you're pretty SOL).
    *clear communication to parents about the process for identification with welcoming language (parents suffer from impostor syndrome on behalf of their kids all the time, *especially* when 2e issues are at play), welcoming parents to nominate their kids; communication to kids that they can nominate themselves.
    *alignment of program with entrance criteria: That is, if it's a math class for gifted kids, remove the requirement for high verbal IQ and high reading scores.
    *procedures for looking more closely at kids who hit the cognitive qualification but miss on performance. This is a sign that someone should look more closely for learning disabilities being masked by cognitive abilities.

    I also be explicit about the impact of twice exceptional kids on identification procedures. I would start my making sure the committee is familiar with the impact that learning disabilities have on a gifted child. Shifting to a behavioral checklist exclusively will exclude a large number of kids with disabilities (particularly developmental and behavioral), but can help to identify kids that are in that realm of specific learning disabilities affecting reading, writing, and math. I really like this table as it gives examples of where those behavior checklists go wrong.

    Last edited by geofizz; 04/27/15 11:30 AM.
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    Originally Posted by geofizz
    I really like this table as it gives examples of where those behavior checklists go wrong.

    This is a great table. I can see where it could be useful. Fortunately, the school district has always at least done universal testing of all 2nd graders. Unfortunately, for the last 20 years or so qualification has been only on that score. They have been using the Raven; I'm no expert, but that strikes me as being a bit one sided.

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    Originally Posted by polarbear
    Originally Posted by HID
    I'm especially interested in this topic lately because I believe that my DD is dyslexic (and probably me as well).

    Back to your original question - I don't have an answer for you, but I have heard many times what aeh said above. I think that when you're advocating, it might be potentially more useful to focus on finding articles/research/etc that shows the chances of a 2e child having dyslexia go undiagnosed, or articles on how dyslexia presents in gifted children, rather than trying to put a lot of effort into proving that there is a higher percentage of dyslexic people in the gifted population. Whether or not it's one child or 50000 that are truly dyslexic, the school district needs to understand how it presents and how to screen so as to not miss it.

    Good luck with your advocacy! Let us know how it goes smile

    polarbear

    Agreed. That was just me putting a bunch of disparate information together that seem to have a connection. I have a theory rattling around in my head so I was looking for more information to prove or disprove it, if only to myself.


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