Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment AP Calculus BC vs Honors Trig

Hi Everyone,

Its been a long time since I posted, but I have always found your advice and suggestions helpful. My DS 11 will be in public HS next school year, and we are looking at advocating for his 9th grade placements this Thursday with the HS counselor. DS was grade skipped and has an additional 2 year math skip. This year he will complete Honors Algebra. We are looking at having him skip Honors Trig (Maybe self study over summer) and go straight to AP Calculus BC. Algebra 2 was not very challenging for him, however for the 1st time he is not getting an A but most likely a high B. This seems to be an issue more with never having to put in effort, and extra time spent with the graphing. He also has never been a 100% correct student, he still makes mistakes mostly due to speed or not paying attention. Rarely is it a comprehension issue. Outside of school he has competed in the AMC 8 and scores in the low 20s and in the AMC 10 and scores just under 100. On the SAT he is all over the place from 580 to 800 on sample tests, depending on focus (Last year he scored 690 on the actual SAT Math). Our goal is to keep him challenged without hurting his future GPA. It's a fine balance. I am looking for any input others may have with this. We are also looking at having him take AP Bio instead of Honors Bio. He is strong in science, however our school district regular progression is that most AP course should not be taken until 11th grade. Most students take AP bio have taken honors bio in 9th. Any input is helpful.

Thank you

Edwin

Trigonometry is an important prerequisite for calculus, so I would not recommend skipping it.

Yeah, Trig is important for Calculus. I felt like Calculus was the easy part of Calculus. It was all the other math that made Calculus challenging.

Agree with the two previous posters. I wouldn't think a high school counselor would agree to a Trig skip if the Honors Algebra isn't an A.

Ap bio needs chemistry first here

We are in a similar situation with DS12, 6th grade. We have not skipped any grades but he is taking Alg II this year with 8th graders.

He was an AIME qualifier this year and also made a 690 on the SAT math section, DS likes math and is pretty disciplined about studying. He self-studied the Art of Problem Solving's Intro series but I read that the online courses were more than just the book and signed him up to retake Intro to # Theory and he really likes it so we will probably also "redo" Counting/Probability and Geometry online also.

As you indicated, his acceleration in math will probably reduce his high school GPA a bit which I am trying to minimize as much as possible. As it stands, he will get credit on his transcripts only and his GPA will not be impacted although they will indicate his actual grade. He is making A's in all of the high school math courses and we initially thought it would be better to wait and take the Honors math courses to maximize his GPA but eventually decided to determine his math progression without thinking of the GPA impact first.

We were not aware of the AMC tests and AIME at the beginning of this school year and he has really enjoyed those and has learned a lot practicing for them. Art of Problem Solving is an amazing resource. Have you read The Calculus Trap, by Richard Rusczyk? It is a worthwhile read and we slowed DS down a bit after reading it. Good luck!!

Echoing the recommendations not to skip Trig.

FWIW our district also requires first year biology and chemistry before AP biology. I would research the AP vs Honors Biology issue - we would have liked to have our ds skip Honors Bio and go straight into AP, but our district insisted that would never work. DS has now been through Honors Bio and there have been pros and cons. Some of the work he had was a repeat of his previous life science classwork, but all was more in depth. He had a *great* teacher and depth of discussion in general was good. Also a pro - for ds, maybe not for other students - he is taking during a year he had some other challenging classes and a lot of homework, so having a slightly less rigorous science than an AP course was helpful. The cons - there was some repetition of things ds has already learned.

I'm not sure exactly what the stepping stone of knowledge is from Chemistry going into AP Biology.

Best wishes,

polarbear

ps - worries over high school GPA can get really complicated depending upon how AP vs honors vs regular courses etc are weighted. For our family, we eventually had to let go and choose to not focus on GPA simply because when it got to the point of coming into play re which courses were taken, that was just too much. I have to believe that the important thing ultimately is that our children have chosen high school course work that challenges them and also interests them, even if they will only get a 4.0 for an A in that class.

Thank you everyone, Note DS is 12, and Dad is old and cant remember his sons age. I will look a little more at the Trig issue. The GPA question was not one of a 4 or a 5, The Trig pre Cal is Honors and the AP Calculus is also a 5. My concern is that he may have a hard fought B vs. an easy A. In regards to the Bio issue is chemistry a part of AP that would make it important for him to take chemistry first? Our goal was AP Chemistry in 10th and AP Physics in 11th. Maybe Chemistry then Bio then Physics?

The old (The new one is Math 1,2,3 all integrated, DS is on the older track) normal progression for the more advanced math students was Honors Geometry, Honors Algebra 2, Honors Trig/pr-calc, AP Calculus. A few 2-5 students are one year ahead of that with AP Stats in 12th. DS is 1 year a head of that group. This would create a situation where his last year or two of math will be outside of the HS.

Here is something I found on the college board AP site

This makes sense, but how far do you carry this logic? Chemistry is an application of the laws of physics, and arguably physics should be a pre-requisite for chemistry. But usually chemistry is taken before physics in American high schools, because the mathematical demands of physics are higher. That is probably the same reason biology is usually taken before chemistry. Since biological systems obey physical laws, one could also argue that physics should be a direct pre-requisite for biology.