Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments Bilingual or English only?

Hi Everyone,

I apologize if this is drawn out. I have a question that I'll eventually get to but will give the long story first. Our DD6 is in a dual language immersion (DLI) program and will be entering 2nd grade in the fall. The program starts as 90%/10% (Spanish/English) and progressively includes more English as the child progresses so that by 5th and 6th grades students are 50/50 with the goal of biliteracy.

DD6 has struggled with reading (Spanish) and received reading intervention for most of the year plus once a week private tutor in spring semester. Her confidence and motivation in Spanish reading/writing is pretty low. In January she expressed frustration at not reading/writing in English and we decided to help her (we're discouraged from teaching English skills because it may affect Spanish acquisition). She is motivated to read in English and has, in a few months, reached grade level for English but is still a little below for Spanish.

She has been asking to go into the all-English program. She says she wants to because it's her native language and she's better at it. We want to support the DLI program and would love for her to be biliterate. My question is: Should we keep a child in 1)a DLI program where she doesn't seem very motivated (maybe this will change with time) but will be biliterate or 2) a program where she seems motivated but will not develop biliteracy skills? It's a tough decision because we feel there are many benefits of being bilingual. However, we have this feeling that school may become a much more positive experience if she's in an English program.

I would appreciate any thoughts/experiences you all may have.

Hi amamama,

My dd9 is also in a 90/10 dual language program. She will be entering the 4th grade this fall. I highly recommend our language immersion program to parents especially if their children are gifted. Yes, it is challenging, but that can be a good thing. Many gifted children have little to learn in a regular classroom.

We were told when we enrolled our children in the program that it takes 4 to 10 years to because academically fluent in a second language. With two years experience your dd is at best only half way there. If she is reading close to grade level in Spanish she is doing terrific.

I say that I have to disagree with your administration if they are telling you not to work on English at home. Our experience has been that any reading done at home has only improved the children's reading levels in both languages. You only learn the process of reading once. You simply learn a different set of phonics and vocabulary for a second language. My dd's class took their first NCLB tests this year (3rd grade). About half of the English speakers took the reading test in English and half of them took the reading test in Spanish. (They all took the math test in Spanish.) I found it interesting that after being taught in mostly Spanish for four years that many of the students performed better in English. The main reason for this is that it takes a lot of time to develop a full vocabulary in a second language but they easily transferred the concepts they were taught into their native language. It has been fascinating to watch the whole process.

I recommend that you ask your dd to give it one more year unless your dd is feeling overwhelming stress or has a learning disability. You can always change your mind later and leave but it is usually difficult to return once you have left the program. Also, you cannot be assured that school will be a better experience if your dd is in an English program. I was acquainted with one individual who complained extensively about our program and withdrew her child. Later she asked to have her child returned to the program because she did not find the situation any better for her child in an all-English classroom. Unfortunately, the child's spot had been filled so she was not allowed to return.

I remember second grade being the year that most of the students settled into their second language comfortably. The kids will tell you that it is hard to learn another language, but they are so proud to be bilingual.

Of course, you know your dd best so you will make the best decision for her. At least you have a choice. The students who are learning English do not have that option.

I have no experience with immersion classes but I do have experience with reading in two languages. My kids are bilingual and I too think that reading carried from one language to the other.

DS5 learned to read in both languages at the same time. He did better with English than the other language, which btw is a phonetic languages. DS4 learned to read English first, then almost a year later asked to be taught reading in the other language. Long story short it turned out that he was already reading. He didn't need any lessons, he figured it out on his own. I am sure the fact that he could read in English helped enormously.

Go ahead and teach your daughter how to read in English, it may end up helping her with her Spanish.

I'll pipe in, like LMom, from a native language perspective and not immersion. I am a FIRM believer in the opportunity to grow up bilingual, biliterate, bicultural... or any of the above.

I think it's awesome that you guys have the opportunity to do these immersion programs - if i could i would absolutely do one for my boys (in a third language, since we speak two at home).
I do find it incredibly odd that they don't encourage (or, really, allow!) you to teach the skills at home in english. I think to be truly bilingual learning them both simultaneously is really the way to go. It's how those of us who are fortunate enough to grow up learning two languages at home generally do it...

We have been speaking mostly spanish at home from day one to the boys (i say mostly b/c while I'm a native speaker and my husband speaks it fluently, we have a bad habit of speaking to eachother in english so the boys are exposed to it all the time. Also, if there is any non-spanish speaking friend or relative around, we'll do english or a combo).

They are now both pretty much bi-lingual (at 2 and 6 they understand everything in both languages and...when pressed will speak spanish quite well - though they do get lazy...). Big man started reading just shy of 4 , in english. A few days after i realized he was reading english, i brought out one of our spanish books and asked him to read... he did it fine. He taught himself to read, and essentially did it in both languages simultaneously - because he was exposed to both in the same manner - books at home, music, talking - all the natural, daily activities of life. Yes, he's better at english, but we don't have a lot of child-appropriate chapter books in spanish, so that doesn't help...

If your daughter is being exposed to the "normal" activities in spanish at school, being exposed to them in english at home should, I believe (and agree with what's been said), only enhance her learning at school and make it all "click" a little easier. Not to mention that successes at home (hey, i can DO it!) will make hardship at school a little bit easier to take AND, i think, will help her realize she CAN do the spanish too.

The exposure to different languages helps on so many levels, i would hate to see her frustration at this point make her lose out on the many benefits of being bilingual. It's NO fun to see your child frustrated at school - but i think with gifted children, frustration at being too challenged vs. not challenged enough sounds a bit refreshing... As Texas Summer said - you know your daughter best and will utlimately have to make the decision that makes you all as a family comfortable. But i'd encourage her to give it a little longer, try english at home, and see if that helps!

Buena Suerte! ;-)

Thank you for your replies. I have felt this past spring that not teaching English at home was a mistake. When DD entered K, we were told we could/should read to our child in English but do not try to specifically teach reading skills in English. The teachers were concerned that the children would get confused and have a difficult time learning Spanish.

After reading through some bicultural education materials, I am convinced that strength in a native language greatly helps acquisition of another language. It echoes all of your experiences and that makes an even stronger case yet! I wondered how other countries (for ex in Europe), where many children are at least bilingual, facilitate the multi-literacy process. Anecdotally, it is like you said, sfb, they mostly do it simultaneously and are not exclusionary.

We plan to support the program and enlist the tutor again. The tutor feels it has really been a confidence issue and that her achievement will increase as she gains confidence. DD6 has always been highly verbal. We thought the program would be such a great match. However, I think the process of decoding and learning to read things that had no meaning really slowed her progress.

She wasn't an early reader but has always enjoyed more sophisticated books for her age. By 1st, she was placed in the lowest reading level. By nature, these books are not high interest and she suffered for it. Her teacher told us that she would notice DD inching her way towards the higher level reading groups to listen in on their books. It broke my heart.

We plan to actively support her progress in English literacy at home. All of your insights have given me more confidence that we're doing the right thing. Thank you!

We had this problem in a unilingual environment! My son's learning style is 'Auditory' and he had some late-for him-development in his eye muscles, so although he could name all the letters at 2, and knew their sounds, we had only two sight worlds when he entered Kindergarden - Start and Exit. (LOL!)

Early in K there was a 'reading project' at school where all the children had their minutes of reading added to a giant mural. Since he was in K, the minutes I read to him counted, otherwise I wouldn't every have kept track. DS12 was motivated to 'help the team' and I ended up reaing the first Harry Potter to him outloud on the couch for 3 hours. ((I was exhausted, but still in denial about both his giftedness and my own - it seems 'a little weird' but not so much.)) Every time I tried to stop, he would wheedle a bit more reading out of me. ((I was so innocent back then!))

It was heart breaking to see him turn up his nose at the 'early readers.' I'd take him to the library and ask him to look around the early reader shelf. "Nothing with talking Animals as main characters - that's for babies!" I would joke with the librarian, "do you have any early readers about weapons or spys?"
In the long run I just let him learn at school with the agemates. He was in the 2nd highest reading group, so I figured it was just me being over anxious. But it was a long long hard for me couple of years. Plus everyone thought I was nuts.

I will add as a postscript, that while he did have a 'behavior plan' in first grade, while he was occupied with learning to read, school got really bad the next year in 2nd grade, when he was reading on a 5th grade level. That was our 'bottom.' So perhaps you should count your blessings?

Self confidence doesn't come from doing 'baby stuff' well. It comes from doing well after great struggle. As hard as this is to watch, it's not as hard as watching a kid down the road who has poor work ethic.

Spend some time in the classrooms of the proposed alternativesobserving before you make any changes!
Hope that helps,
Grinity

Hi anamama,

We have a situation that might be similar to yours. For background, our DS4 has just finished the first year of a French immersion school. English is our first language and, although we have spent (with DS) about 4 months in French-speaking countries since he was born, we don't really speak much French at home. The first 3 months of the program were difficult - we had some behavior problems at the new school - but there were extenuating circumstances at home (DW was ill) so we don't know how much it had to do with the new language. After a full year (including camp this summer that just ended) DS's French skills are pretty good. He is even starting to speak more regularly in French, especially to people who have it as a first language. But there is one thing that stands out: his reading hasn't progressed nearly as much as we might have thought. He knew all the letters, both upper-case and lower case, by about 18 months, and recognized words like "mom", "dad", and his name by about two years. But even now, at 4.1, he is just starting on set 2 of the Bob books. (His math, by comparison, is very strong.) It doesn't bother us at all - when he's ready I'm sure that things will move as fast as he likes. But it is a bit surprising. My assumption is that the language part of his brain has been completely occupied with the second language, so reading has taken a back seat. I wonder if something similar could be happening in your DD's case? Does anyone know of any literature regarding bilingualism and reading acquisition?

One other question: at what age did your DD begin the language immersion program. At our French school, unless there is French spoken at home the child isn't allowed to begin after age 3. They are convinced that the immersion experience would be too disruptive for kids who are older than that.

BB

Is this for non-GT kids starting from Zero?

My wife is bilingual due to a similar program when she was in gradeschool - K through 5. I had two years in 7-8 Grade and speak other languages. Our nanny (Mrs E ) is 100% Spanish ( no exceptions) around kids. All of her former families' kids are 100% bilingual. DW can understand Mrs E 100% now and I am catching up to where I can understand some jokes.

It will help if you can find a babysitter who speaks it or if you can try. One tactic I used when learning other languages is to alternate language days. One day is English, the next is the target language.

As for reading English - who cares. I can put texts of each language side by side and go from one to the other and back. Or add in two more. It makes no difference.

The HARDEST thing for me around Spanish speakers, esp women, is they speak TOO FAST!!!!!

The 4 to 10 years is for an average person starting with no experience in the second language. Conversational fluency is acquired more rapidly. Academic fluency (which includes reading and writing along with an academic vocabulary) takes longer because there is so much more to learn.

You are right, Grinity. I really need to observe the alternative environment if we make a move. She had 30 minutes of English per day last year and really enjoyed the environment. It was not very academic in the sense of working on literacy skills though, mostly exposure to the language. She was able to bring up a lot of things she was interested in and the teacher would go with the flow. She might have unrealistic ideas about the English program.

BaseballDad, I don't have scientific literature on bilingualism and reading acquisition. I wondered more about the relationship when I came across a book called Infinity and Zebra Stripes by Wendy Skinner. She writes about her PG son's experience in a dual language immersion program. He started to shut down and also didn't progress in reading. The program was resistant to differentiating for his exceptional abilities in math, and (for other reasons as well) they pulled him out halfway through 1st grade. He went on to an English program and quickly excelled in reading (I think he went from beginning readers to chapter books within a month). He blossomed in his new environment.

Of course, each case is different and DD is not at the low point that Skinner's son seemed to be. We keep hoping that things will turn around if we give it more time. On the other hand, we're nervous about getting too far along and finding out too late that it's just not a good match.

As a side, we had her check out a private school towards the middle of spring. She absolutely it. The curriculum was integrated, there were two teachers per class, and the students were working on individual long-term research projects on Peru. She had observed a couple of other schools and this was the only one she said she would leave her current school to attend.
We were excited as we felt that it was a good match for her interests and learning style. She said she could learn so much there (she had been complaining about how she only learns one new thing per month at school but she wants to learn 10,000 new things per week -- yes, a bit of hyperbole!). Unfortunately, her English skills were not at the level they needed.

The dual language immersion program is a real commitment. It can be hard to watch the struggles but I try to keep in mind what you have said, Texas Summer --it takes time.