Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Third grader NOT leveling out

I haven't been on this forum in years. My daughter is an 8 year old 3rd grader - the youngest in her class and possibly the youngest in her grade. We knew from an early age that she was advanced and tried to widen her knowledge base such as foreign language. She is fluent in Spanish and also knows some French and Mandarin.

We have had our ups and downs with DD because she is most definitely a perfectionist. If she doesn't understand something right away she tends to shut down and think she isn't capable or stupid. We have seen this when it comes to math. DD was very negative about math and having mommy tell her she is good does nothing for her confidence. (I will come back to this shortly.)

We started DD in private but moved her to public for 2nd grade. At the beginning of 2nd she was tested and found to be at the end of 4th grade in reading. I think this was as far as they tested her. The school she was in was considered to be the best public elementary in the entire area. (We live in a metro area.) What we found is there were many above average to gifted students in the school and because of this they lump all of them together and refused to teach beyond the requirements set by the school district. The only way to be in the gifted program, which was a pull out to work on a project, was to pass at 90+ percent for all tested subjects but my kiddo hated math and refused to even try so second grade was a boring experience for her yet she was content with blending in. This year we moved to a school that isn't close to the quality of school she was in last year BUT the district is one of the better ones in the metro area. We also ended up with a brand new teacher. DD was content to fall into the same pattern and I was getting frustrated with her negative attitude when it came to anything to do with math. She also did not like her teacher and because of that refused to show much of anything in regards to her reading when tested. She had to be retested because she came up as average reader when records showed she was advanced.

I finally decided that just me encouraging her for math wasn't cutting it so we took her in to a tutoring center. She hated the idea, at first. The testing shocked me a little. She came back with average and hardly any gaps. Last year the school test had her extremely low but again, she doesn't perform unless she wants to. grrrr. For the past few months she has been in tutoring and they say she is really good at math. She flies through it and is now confident in her abilities... not to the level as her reading but she is getting there. She is already past all of the 3rd grade and moving quickly through 4th. As for her reading? She was stuck doing spelling with all the other 3rd graders and reading with the top group in her class (4 of them) but even the top group was at the end of 4th grade and at the beginning of 2nd grade she tested to that level.

I brought to her teacher's attention that DD has made 100s on every spelling test. Her teacher said that her hands are tied because district requires them to take the test BUT thankfully she asked her mentor and found out that DD could test out. She had to make a 100 on it though and it was a 60+ word test where she wasn't allowed to study but she passed. (Leading up to this she was showing signs of being very bored and no longer caring to just fit in.) They also tested her beyond the end of 4th grade and she is now in a special one on one group with her teacher where she is reading 6th grade level and taking spelling tests that include words from 5th grade spelling list all the way up to 11th grade and even that isn't slowing her down. She not only has to get the words right on the test but also define them. Still making 100s but actually has to study a little bit. I still think the words aren't hard enough. Her studying time is still probably less than her peers who study for the 3rd grade spelling test. She practices/studies words and definitions 2 times for the week.

And with all of that, I think we might actually be able to get her officially tested for gifted. Before, I saw it as a potential waste of money given her attitude. Regardless, I am happy to see she is maturing and accepting her differences. She is no longer trying to just fit in and is even willing to approach her teacher for more challenges. Kind of glad we moved to a less recognized school.

Thanks for letting me share.

Thanks for sharing the great news about your daughter's growing confidence in her math abilities. Confidence can be closely related to ability in a subject, and affinity for the subject.

Because you mentioned perfectionism, I will share, although you may have read this elsewhere on the forums...

Perfectionistic tendencies may be a sign of developing a fixed mindset rather than a growth mindset. One aspect or application is that gifted kids may stop taking appropriate risks in order to always be "right" or always be "smart" or never be "wrong", and this may work against them. The concept is nicely summarized in these youtube videos:
Ashley Merryman & Po Bronson: The Myth of Praise (link- )
Teaching a Growth Mindset (link- )

Parents may wish to read the book Mindset by Carol Dweck for tips on promoting a growth mindset.

A book which seems to understand perfectionism very well and which many find supportive is What To Do When Good Enough Isn't Good Enough. Another book you might like is Perfectionism: What's Bad About Being Too Good. While insightful, these are written gently for kids, in a style that is fun and engaging. With any of these books it may be wise for a parent to pre-read and decide if it seems to be a helpful tool to use in guiding their child.

Procrastination can be closely related to perfectionism.

A child considering "worst case scenario" and finding various work-arounds to keep moving forward may in some cases help reduce anxiety and add an element of self-confidence, even a sense of looking forward to taking on the challenge.

My older son picked up on one random comment by a teacher and lost confidence in math, despite numerous times that there was specific proof that he was at grade level, above grade level and even super above grade level. He was doing just fine in math but because he didn't automatically know math before being instructed in a skill he equated that with being bad.

It took several years for him to snap out of it but he eventually did. As his parents, we worked hard to fix his misperception.

Thanks for the list of resources. I will definitely check them out.

Cookie, glad to read that he snapped out of it and I'm sure your involvement helped him to do so.

Really all we did was point out really good logical thinking or mathematical thinking that he would do all the time. And point out that most 4th graders were not computing percentage of savings when walking through the grocery store or figuring out mathematically if one "deal" in the store was actually a "deal" or just a fake promotion to make you think it is a deal. And then when he would use math at home to figure something out or really good logical thinking or algebraic thinking. We had to make our comments not sound like fake praise but really had to just continue the conversation in a genuine way or expand the math to the next level or conclusion. I don't think he realized that he looks at life as a big math problem until we started pointing out that... he looks at life as a big math problem. Reminds me of that book called The Math Curse by Jon Scieszka.

Doing that consistently finally helped him not say negative things and then I think actually getting into the pre-algebra class and Algebra I having actual hard math to do, to have to work hard at it made him see the light. Especially when he is getting perfect and near perfect scores (with a few B's thrown in every once in a blue moon) and seeing that other kids aren't. Yeah, maybe I am good at math.

If she's getting 100s on everything, then the words definitely aren't hard enough. Once you get to the point where she's getting a few wrong, even with studying, then she'll be challenged at her level.

This is one of the main reasons we pursued a skip for dd14. (She skipped 6th) There were many tears over math for a short time because she wasn't used to understanding immediately, but she learned to struggle (a little) and that it was ok to not understand right away. The greater challenge really served her well, and I can't remember the last time she cried about math. We wouldn't have been confident asking for a skip without the private testing that showed it was warranted.