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    #213782 04/06/15 12:31 PM
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    My 12yo son is 2E with dyslexia and dysgraphia, which was diagnosed at age 7. He received a 504 in 2nd grade, but since the school wouldn't provide much besides accommodations, we hired a private tutor for 3 years, who was really wonderful. He's in 7th grade now and doing amazingly well. His reading is at above 12th-grade level, and he's getting a B+ in writing. His spelling is still atrocious, but his actual writing is fine. He doesn't use any of the accommodations in his 504 except that he reads on his kindle (with larger text) and sometimes just listens to the books rather than reads them. His 504 gives him extra time on tests and assignments, the ability to keyboard (all the students do this now), stipulates that teachers can't mark down for spelling unless it's for a spelling test, and it allows him to use an ereader when necessary.

    He's getting all As except for that B+ in writing. Based on this, I don't see the need to continue with the 504, but I'm wondering if there is some long-term issue I'm not considering?


    syoblrig #213784 04/06/15 12:34 PM
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    It's a lot easier to keep a 504 than to get one. I'd be very cautious about deciding that you don't need it. In particular, I'd fight to keep the "teachers can't mark down for spelling" and the "use of an ereader" accommodations, since it sounds like he uses those.

    syoblrig #213796 04/06/15 01:31 PM
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    I would say keep it. You can never tell what will happen and I doubt the actual issues have completely gone away.

    syoblrig #213802 04/06/15 01:53 PM
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    Originally Posted by syoblrig
    My 12yo son is 2E with dyslexia and dysgraphia, which was diagnosed at age 7. He received a 504 in 2nd grade, but since the school wouldn't provide much besides accommodations, we hired a private tutor for 3 years, who was really wonderful. He's in 7th grade now and doing amazingly well. His reading is at above 12th-grade level, and he's getting a B+ in writing. His spelling is still atrocious, but his actual writing is fine. He doesn't use any of the accommodations in his 504 except that he reads on his kindle (with larger text) and sometimes just listens to the books rather than reads them. His 504 gives him extra time on tests and assignments, the ability to keyboard (all the students do this now), stipulates that teachers can't mark down for spelling unless it's for a spelling test, and it allows him to use an ereader when necessary.

    He's getting all As except for that B+ in writing. Based on this, I don't see the need to continue with the 504, but I'm wondering if there is some long-term issue I'm not considering?

    The long-term issues to consider are high school, high stakes testing in high school, and college. You need to consider will your ds need accommodations for things such as:

    High School: Do you know now that all high school teachers allow keyboarding for all students? My dysgraphic ds is in high school; he has some classes where the assignment instructions for essays specifically state "handwriting only", and he also has had some weird things come up such as an assignment to turn in handwritten flash cards. Is your ds using his extended time accommodation for tests? While he might not now, the rigor and time limits on tests might change as he reaches high school. The amount of time he needs to take to check math problems might change (therefore impacting test time). Is the state testing your ds has taken so far timed or untimed? If it's been untimed, look at his results for timed vs untimed testing on anything you have a comparison on - timing is often an issue for dysgraphic and dyslexic students, and it becomes more pervasive in testing as you go through high school, as well as becoming critically important when you take high stakes testing (SAT and ACT). It's possible the extended time for assignments might be more critical for your ds in high school than middle school with additional teachers and more rigorous coursework, or if he decides to participate in extra-curricular activities such as a sport or club that meets on weeknights.

    High Stakes Testing: Same thing mentioned above + something - it isn't easy to get accommodations for extended time or use of a word processor for the SAT and ACT. You're expected to be able to provide a history of use of accommodations as well as "recent" testing showing the current impact on a student's functioning. Whether or not you think your ds will need the accommodations for the SAT and ACT, the one thing you can assure yourself of is that if he does, having the history of the same accommodations under a 504 plan will make it easier to prove he needs them when it's time to advocate for them.

    I think it's also just a good idea in general for you and your ds to have a good understanding of which accommodations he is using and how his work without those accommodations compares to other students, and having the 504 plan in place, having the discussions with the team when the plan is reviewed each year, etc, helps a high school age student understand the impact of his/her challenges. For example, both my dysgraphic ds and my dyslexic dd take considerably more time to do their homework than their peers even *with* other accommodations such as ereaders for my dyslexic ds and typing for my dysgraphic ds. They've both made amazing progress with respect to their individual challenges thanks to help at school as well as private tutoring/remediation, but they are both still impacted. I'd want to be extra extra sure before dropping a 504 plan that the impact didn't still exist.

    One other thought - kinda irrelevant but maybe worth thinking about - spelling is another huge issue for both my 2e kids, and they both use electronic spell-checkers and word prediction software, except on standardized testing. My ds' 504 plan has an accommodation to not get graded off for spelling but he also needs to still try to get his words spelled correctly (using whatever method works for him) so that other people who don't know him at some point in the future won't see his writing and judge him by his spelling. If your ds isn't using word prediction or an electronic spell-check of some type, you might want to start implementing it. Since he uses these accommodations, my ds' final drafts of written assignments rarely contain spelling errors - yet he still makes tons of errors on short-answer type assignments etc at school or on timed writing assignments when has to focus all of his time on the writing and doesn't have enough time to check spelling. Not all miss-spelled words are caught by his spell-checker.

    I'd also think through, why is your ds getting a B+ in writing when he's getting As in everything else. Is there something he still needs help with, or is it an issue with appropriate accommodations?

    Probably more thoughts than you need! To summarize: keep the 504 plan.

    jmo,

    polarbear


    syoblrig #213806 04/06/15 02:22 PM
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    I would keep it. I sounds like he does use some of his accommodations. What is the reason to get rid of it? He may not need it in junior high, but as polarbear said High School is another battle all together. I only just got DS16 a 504 this past fall in 10th grade. He was able to cope without accommodations until this year but the extra demands on High School have made it necessary.

    Is school pushing you to drop the 504? The High School pushed for us to drop DD's IEP because she wasn't really using it. But when I pushed and asked them to test her before I'd agree. The underlying LD was still there. School saw my DD as very functional (turning in assignments) therefore not in need of services but she was still struggling in ways that many other kids weren't and even though we didn't use it very often by H.S. It was still VERY helpful to have. One thing the 504/IEP allowed that I've found useful was preferential teacher picks for courses. While this hasn't always worked out, it has helped my kids from getting the worst of the teachers.

    syoblrig #213818 04/06/15 03:55 PM
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    Yes, school is wondering why we want a 504 when he's doing so well and he doesn't use many of the accommodations. I feel a little silly saying he needs something that he doesn't use. I thought there was some kind of use-it-or-lose-it rule? For instance, since he doesn't use extra time in the classroom, he's not allowed extra time on state testing. And unless he types EVERYTHING, he can't use a keyboard on state testing.

    syoblrig #213819 04/06/15 04:05 PM
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    I'd turn this around and ask why they want to take it away. I can see trimming the list of accommodations down to what he actually uses, but are they saying that he doesn't have a disability any more? On what basis?

    syoblrig #213823 04/06/15 05:39 PM
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    Excellent advice above. I would echo the concerns about transition to high school and post-secondary. Quite often, I see students who are raised as initial referrals in ninth grade, and then when I start digging, I find out that they were on IEPs or 504s all through elementary, but were dismissed in 7th grade "because they were doing so well". They made it through 8th grade, often because they were in the same schools, where teachers already knew (or heard from colleagues) what their accommodations were, and essentially kept them on informal support. Then they came to us and imploded. Not saying this will happen to him, but I've seen it enough times that I would be very cautious about this. One of my big regrets among specific professional decisions I've made in the past was recommending dismissal for a kid in 8th grade, who then had a very difficult ninth grade year (resulting in being placed back on a plan).

    If he is using any of his accommodations, then he clearly needs his 504 accommodation plan. And not true in most states (maybe different in yours) that he has to keyboard everything to qualify for typed responses on state testing. Does he use it for extended writing? That's usually enough to say it's a routine classroom accommodation. There may also be accommodations that he should have that he isn't getting, that might make a difference between B+ and A. For example, for a dysgraphic, I would typically recommend supplementary oral assessment, and offering alternative assignments for extended writing projects (especially when writing is not the instructional focus). He probably would benefit from spellcheck and thesaurus also. The latter in particular because, with his reading level, he probably has a much larger oral vocabulary than he is able to locate in a spelling dictionary, and, if he is like the dyslexics/dysgraphics I usually see at the secondary level, likely "dumbs down" his written vocabulary to limit the spelling damage. The thesaurus is another way for him to locate the correct spelling of words that he knows how to use, so that his written work more closely approximates his actual language abilities. Even if his writing looks fine, it still may be a marked underrepresentation of his actual ability to express himself using language.


    ...pronounced like the long vowel and first letter of the alphabet...
    syoblrig #213824 04/06/15 05:43 PM
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    Do you think he will need an extended time accommodation for the SAT/ACT? If so, he should keep the 504 and *use* the extended time accommodation. They ask if the student actually uses the accommodations they are allowed. If not, my understanding is that accommodations will be denied.

    The SAT/ACT are different than most classroom tests. The reading demand is heavier and they are more tightly timed. My son is dyslexic, and if he is well prepared for a classroom test, he can generally finish in the time allotted, but he really needed that extra time for the ACT.

    Here is something that was recently posted at the Dyslexic Advantage site about this: http://blog.dyslexicadvantage.org/2...ions-for-college-exams-psat-sat-and-act/

    Last edited by Kai; 04/06/15 05:43 PM.
    aeh #213853 04/07/15 06:34 AM
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    Originally Posted by aeh
    I would echo the concerns about transition to high school and post-secondary. Quite often, I see students who are raised as initial referrals in ninth grade, and then when I start digging, I find out that they were on IEPs or 504s all through elementary, but were dismissed in 7th grade "because they were doing so well". They made it through 8th grade, often because they were in the same schools, where teachers already knew (or heard from colleagues) what their accommodations were, and essentially kept them on informal support. Then they came to us and imploded. Not saying this will happen to him, but I've seen it enough times that I would be very cautious about this. One of my big regrets among specific professional decisions I've made in the past was recommending dismissal for a kid in 8th grade, who then had a very difficult ninth grade year (resulting in being placed back on a plan).

    Yes.

    IME high school teachers often expect serious independence at a level that may not be a problem for a neurotypical child but may just be an emerging skill for a 2E. You can explain the disability, you can advocate, but it can be very tricky to get everyone on board-- their expectations are what they are.

    The 504 is an essential piece of protection for cases like this.

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