Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy can i refuse detention for my child?

Anyone know if you can say no to your child having detention?

Well, you can certainly TRY, but "detention" is often a disciplinary matter involving the contract between student and institution-- so if it is for a behavioral infraction involving your child's choices/behavior, unless you have a disability-related or matter-of-conscience angle, it may make little difference.

So things where parental backing is both entirely appropriate and would probably stick:

a) child has a documented physical disability which prevented him/her from complying with a substitute teacher's order to do (whatever-it-was), or

b) refusal to dissect an animal in a child who is vegan.

(Those are just examples, of course)

Grey area:

a) child says that teacher was unfair-- and you believe it is probably true, or

b) child was "swept" up in a Draconian punishment intended to punish a whole group of children ("the entire 6th grade").


If your child has an IEP or 504 plan, you probably have better leverage.

Last quarter ds9 was sent out to find a class to finish his work. Teacher didnt know where he went. Teacher left with the rest of the class and didnt come find him. Ds finished work and went back to class only to find it empty so he wandered school grounds. When i heard i threw a fit and schools response was that it is not the teachers responsibility to keep tabs on the student but the child should know what time assemblys are and etc. Today i get a call ds got dention for not telling his teacher when he was going to another class and he went unsupervised "the exact writing on the detention form".

Conference time.

Your child is being punished because... the school didn't supervise him.

Nice. Really nice. Sheesh.

Well, anyway-- let that one go for the purposes of this conference.

1. You'll want to meet BEFORE your child is to serve this detention, because you have questions. (And how, actually!)

2. At what point was your child instructed that this was an infraction of "the rules?"

3. WAS this an infraction of "the rules?"

4. Should the CHILD here have reasonably expected to be "in trouble" as a result of his choice? That is, did he KNOW that he was breaking the rules?

6. If not, then what purpose does the detention serve?

7. If so, then what purpose does the detention serve?


I'd pull him out of school before I'd have him punished, assuming that the narrative you've stated here is complete and accurate-- no WAY do I agree that it is the student's responsibility to make sure that s/he is properly supervised and engaged. That is flatly crazy, and it isn't meeting the clear duty of care for the students. I'm guessing that your state's board of education would find it interesting in the extreme, too. Just noting that.

Now, if the infraction previous was a "warning" and your DS left class TODAY, and was therefore given this punishment TODAY because of leaving without telling the teacher, well-- that is a less clear situation.

On the other hand, how is this enforced with other students, hmmm? Or is this because they aren't actually differentiating IN the classroom for your DS in particular? That is, is this a structural problem that they've created for him, and one which other peers are not having to face?

That is, are all of the other children being supervised and told where to go and when? Or do they treat all of them so irresponsibly?

I'm pretty sure that this is adding up to a no-win situation for your DS. Clearly, he was told that he "should have known" where his class was, and should have sought them at the assembly. Yes?

Well, he has obviously gotten the message loud and clear that the teacher isn't responsible for him-- HE is. So why would he tell the teacher where he was going? HE knew.


Besides, if it isn't the teacher's job to keep track of students, then why on earth are they punishing your son for not facilitating that kind of awareness on the part of the teacher?


ETA: finally-- why, oh WHY is your child still in this setting with these people? (It's an honest question. You don't have to answer, but my goodness, this is certainly toxic.)

Its very toxic. We have had several meetings. Honestly he wants to stay. We are having our daughter tested in a few weeks and if shes gifted we are putting them in a gifted only classroom. I have also written several letters to the board with no response. I even went to the pto and was told they have nothing to do with that. I understand why he wants to stay but im almost tempted to just keep him home the remainder of the school year.

Poor little guy! Poor you, this must be horribly stressful!

Kids, even smart ones, often don't know what they want because they don't have a basis of comparison. That is, he doesn't know how bad it is because, how could he? And it shouldn't be his responsibility to be able to judge his situation fairly (just like it's not his responsibility to know where an assembly is or what classroom to go to).

DD never wanted to change anything when she was young. She didn't want to be different, didn't want to stick out, didn't want to switch schools. But when we'd make the change for her, she ended up much happier.

I say your experience and broader knowledge has to supersede his more limited opinion. I say pull him out if you have any alternative.

(and as a nice bonus, you get to tell the school where they can stick their detention)

I think given previous events it is reasonable to ask them to delay it until you have had a meeting.

Hubby and i are going to the school this morning to have a chat with the principal.

This sounds like the school or teacher's attempt to retaliate and turn things around to make everything look like his fault. I assume you haven't gotten anywhere with the principal so far in terms of understanding your concerns? With people/schools like this, the more you complain the worse it's going to get. It's a no-win situation. And doesn't he have ADHD? They expect him to be at an assembly at the right time on his own? DD9 can't even find her shoes half the time. Basically they are punishing behaviors that result directly from a disability (and that's assuming someone told him he had to notify the teacher and he didn't).

I hope your meeting goes well Cola. I'll second blackcat's reply too.

One thing I'd do for sure is make sure you have the full info re what actually happened. In the instant that happened this week, did it happen when your ds was going to his regularly scheduled other-class-for-differentiation visit, or did he just wander out at a time when he wasn't expected to? That would make a huge difference in my perspective on how to proceed re this particular incident.

Overall, it sounds like you need to have an IEP (or 504) update meeting - I think he has an IEP or a 504? If not, it sounds like he needs one... at this school.

polarbear

HowlerKarma posed excellent questions and observations. I would only add: detention for a 9-year-old? Really? Nine? What will it accomplish?

Wishing you well in the meeting.

I'm asking people not to quote this because I'm going to delete or edit it later.

DD's elementary school suspended a 7-yr-old with Asperger's/ADHD when he was left unsupervised at recess (he never went outside with the other kids and the teacher went to the lounge). Rather than put his coat on and go outside, he went back into the classroom and started fiddling around with a chromebook, because he's fascinated by electronic gadgets and has no impulse control. He dropped it on the floor and the screen cracked. He then tried to hide it. Then he went outside. The school/district refused to do anything about the suspension even after the mom complained. The State would do nothing because there is nothing "illegal" about this. The mom asked for a functional behavioral assessment because even though he is on an IEP, this was never done. It is now 6 months later and the school never did it. Schools get away with an amazing amount of BS. Besides the suspension, they also made him spend 2 or 3 weeks doing "chores" around the school to pay for the broken chromebook. They told the mom that if she doesn't start disciplining him better, he's going to end up in jail when he's older.

My 9-year-old was suspended for a day, for vandalism. She was picking loose grout out from between the tiles in the bathroom because she liked the way it felt running through her hands.

I have to say that I think DS is under qualified to make this decision - if you have alternatives, please remove him from this school. I don't think it even matters who is right/wrong etc. It appears to have gone beyond that, and it can only be detrimental to your son.

Update: hubby had the meeting. The Dean of students threw the slips out and said it was inappropriate and the teacher wrote down "defiance of authority" as the reason for detention. The Dean confided in hubby they have received numerous complaints about this one teacher by more than a dozen other parents and the school is on the process of completing paperwork for the union to not renew her contract next year but they have yet to find a sub to finish the school year. So...looks like we arent crazy and arent the only ones either and the Dean and hubby are working together to do what is best for DS.

And no he is not getting detention.

Whew. That's major progress and it's always a good feeling to have one's thinking confirmed!

well done, I guess then maintain status quo, and ignore teacher for rest of year?

When I was in grade school, my friend and I like to peel off and play with the putty on the windows...it was putty, after all! We didn't get detention or suspension, no, it was worse: the janitor came out to tell us not to do it because the window would leak and maybe even fall out.

He was actually very nice, we were just horrified that we had maybe caused a problem for him. We took good care of our school after that.

We had a similarly toxic situation in our local public before DD was approved for OOD placement only ours involved a horrible, unqualified principal who set the tone for the entire school. The whole sordid mess was chronicled here so many of the long term members will likely remember what we dealt with. It was b-a-d.

From that perspective may I suggest that you put a written complaint in to the school district about this teacher's inappropriate/retaliatory/discriminatory behavior. In it be sure to include a request that the complaint "be included as part of her personnel record." What we found was without this phrase the complaint never existed. No matter how many parents complained, over what period of time or how egregious the behavior the complaints didn't "officially" exist. The superintendent could look me in the eye and say "I've only received 2 or 3 complaints over the years" even though I personally knew twice that many that had complained to her over the course of a year. With that phrase the principal/district/superintendent/school board will HAVE to look at the behavior. They CAN'T ignore it.

I am surprised that the Dean of Students was so candid with your DH. All we ever got was eye rolls, deep sighs and sympathetic nods of the head. We had folks from central office take over DD's case, had another principal oversee any and all decisions involving DD and her IEP and even filed a Dept of Ed complaint. The principal was eventually removed from the school but not fired. She was "promoted" to a newly created position at central office. Not the best outcome but at least other kids in the school were protected from her outrageous behavior. Your teacher has union protection. A paper trail will be essential.

Do not blink. Do not look the other way. Do not expect her behavior to change. You will need to vigilant to get your DS through this school year unscathed. Hopefully the Dean of Students will be an ally but you will need to be there every time this teacher behaves inappropriately towards your DS. Every. Single. Time.

Good luck and please keep us posted.

During our IEP meeting she made very rude and innapropriate comments towards the District Psychologist. I know the occupational therapist and the speech therapist let the Dean know. We have full support from the IEP group and one of the requirements in the IEP was for a positive and structured environment. She tried to fight the IEP stating it wasnt needed because he was just acting out and manipulating. That got more complaints from the staff. She made a lot of enemies thanks to us. We always made sure one of them was with us during meetings too.