Gifted Bulletin Board

Welcome to the Gifted Issues Discussion Forum.

We invite you to share your experiences and to post information about advocacy, research and other gifted education issues on this free public discussion forum.
CLICK HERE to Log In. Click here for the Board Rules.

Links


Learn about Davidson Academy Online - for profoundly gifted students living anywhere in the U.S. & Canada.

The Davidson Institute is a national nonprofit dedicated to supporting profoundly gifted students through the following programs:

  • Fellows Scholarship
  • Young Scholars
  • Davidson Academy
  • THINK Summer Institute

  • Subscribe to the Davidson Institute's eNews-Update Newsletter >

    Free Gifted Resources & Guides >

    Who's Online Now
    0 members (), 239 guests, and 35 robots.
    Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
    Newest Members
    streble, DeliciousPizza, prominentdigitiz, parentologyco, Smartlady60
    11,413 Registered Users
    March
    S M T W T F S
    1 2
    3 4 5 6 7 8 9
    10 11 12 13 14 15 16
    17 18 19 20 21 22 23
    24 25 26 27 28 29 30
    31
    Previous Thread
    Next Thread
    Print Thread
    Page 6 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
    Joined: Feb 2010
    Posts: 2,639
    B
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    B
    Joined: Feb 2010
    Posts: 2,639
    If a child feels estranged from classmates because she is unfamiliar with their preferred music, won't she let you know? Why do you need to prepare for a problem that may not materialize and is not too serious if it does?

    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,489
    B
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    B
    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,489
    Originally Posted by HowlerKarma
    Our social currency stuff for DD was pretty carefully selected. It's not like we kept her away from everything else, by any means. Nothing is verboten here, really-- but you have to be willing to tolerate being questioned about your choices, that's all. So why do you think that Justin Bieber is "the greatest" then? What do you mean by that?
    One thing I learned from my childhood was that anything forbidden that other kids are allowed is somehow sweeter. So along those lines I didn't go out to expose my kids to popular culture but I allowed them to explore it within reason. (Such as limits on TV time, age appropriateness.)

    The stage when my DD20 liked Hanna Montana made me cringe but she was a preteen at the time. I tried on numerous occasions to talk about why it made me uncomfortable but I still let her watch. I was so much happier when a friend turned her onto Dr. Who.

    Joined: Sep 2011
    Posts: 3,363
    P
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    P
    Joined: Sep 2011
    Posts: 3,363
    Originally Posted by ultramarina
    polarbear, I get what you're saying, but if your family tends to be pretty removed from pop culture (we are) it's possible to forget to tune in to occasional detriment. I don't think it's a huge deal, but it's like a conversational icebreaker. Oh, you like Angry Birds? You like Elsa? Me too. How about those Red Sox?

    ultramarina, my kids started school having never listened to current pop music and never watching tv other than the occasional Nature video on PBS. We didn't have any electronic toys in our house, the kids at that age didn't use our computers, and at that point in time I didn't even use a cell phone, and my kids had no logos on anything. I suspect that, at best, my family would have qualified as "fringe" rather than being familiar with what seems to be referred to hear as popular culture, and that's where I'm coming from. Not knowing the latest hit movie characters, not watching cartoons on tv, not listening to pop music - none of that caused an issue in meeting and making friend when my kids went to school. What made a difference was how comfortable my kids were meeting and getting to know other kids. If it helps a child to know who Elsa is in order to feel like they fit in, I don't have an issue with taking them to see Frozen, but what if the child they meet hasn't seen Frozen? There are so many things in young children's worlds that can serve as a common conversational point and a common meeting-of-minds, that kids really don't have to know what the "popular" movies/songs/etc are just to fit in. I spent a lot of time after school when my kids were in their first elementary school just hanging out on the side at the playground after school so my kids could play - lots of families did that at that school. The things kids talked about and played on the playground had nothing to do with movies etc - they were swinging on swings, sliding down slides, talking about dinosaurs, looking for cool rocks, seeing how fhow much playground "mulch" (whatever it was) they could stuff in their shoes, racing to catch nothing, things like that. In the classroom during free time they had all sorts of school stuff to play with, particularly in kindergarten where there were dolls, play kitchens, blocks, legos, games, etc. My kids absolutely *learned* about popular music/games/tv shows etc through peers that they met at school, but they weren't ever shunned or limited in friendship opportunities because of not having been exposed to it.

    That said, I do know quite a bit about popular music now that tI've had kids go through elementary school and in turn it's seeped into our house as our kids have picked and chosen what they like smile And that's ok - I am now a Lady Gaga and Katy Perry fan smile

    polarbear

    Joined: Aug 2010
    Posts: 3,428
    U
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    U
    Joined: Aug 2010
    Posts: 3,428
    Quote
    Not knowing the latest hit movie characters, not watching cartoons on tv, not listening to pop music - none of that caused an issue in meeting and making friend when my kids went to school.

    It actually did make a difference to my DD in preschool. She had not been exposed to any Disney anything, and the pack of girls her age played Disney princesses every single day. Admittedly, that is an age when girls may be monomaniacal on this subject, and it did not help that DD was a) not interested and b) socially immature. However, we got her some Disney princess books from the library so she could at least understand what they were talking about, and it helped. (I remember my little birdwatcher initially thought Ariel was named "Oriole.")

    Likewise, DS6 goes over to other boys' houses and it's slightly mortifying/weird to him that he does not know how to play any Xbox/Nintendo/whatever games. BTW, I haven't caved on this, but it has come up for him. So, at least he plays Angry Birds and some other stuff like that and has SOME knowledge.

    It might matter less if one's children are highly socially skilled. IDK. Both of my kids are pretty well-liked, but one is quirkier and more out there. I am very sympathetic to the needs of families with, for instance, kids who are either ASD or ASD-ish, for whom Legos or Minecraft or whatever is such an important point of entry. So, I don't think should be dismissed. Of course, don't force it on a kid.

    I mean, if you met us in real life, you'd see--we're totally fringey too. wink

    Joined: Nov 2012
    Posts: 2,513
    A
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    A
    Joined: Nov 2012
    Posts: 2,513
    Originally Posted by ultramarina
    It actually did make a difference to my DD in preschool. She had not been exposed to any Disney anything, and the pack of girls her age played Disney princesses every single day.

    Wow, this thread is really twigging my feminist soapbox today.

    This is a case of the tail wagging the dog. Little girls don't universally have an innate drive to imagine themselves as princesses--sure, maybe they favour interpersonal narratives as a gender, but that tendency alone can't explain the ubiquity of princess products. The aggregate trend of princessification is a manifestation of long-term marketing strategy in female-targeted products that create a subconscious, narcissistic drive in mothers to morph their daughters into princesses. The girls are being conditioned to attach self-worth to the consumption of high margin products that reinforce a mainstream corporate feminine ideal. The merchandisers and media producers are creating a prisoner's dilemma for parents, establshing a perverse situation where the culture becomes self-reinforcing and demands its own consumption.

    For an interesting documentary on media driving culture, check out "Merchants of Cool". Having consulted for F100 corporations, I can assure you that these strategies are insidious and very effective at turning consumers into sheeple. My bottom-line recommendation for building social currency: don't consume something simply because it's culturally popular, only consume it because it has intrinsic positive value to you. I think it sends a positive message to children about their self-worth to support them in pursuing non-mainstream interests when the norm is irrelevant or uninteresting to them.

    I love polarbear's post on finding common ground through social education.


    What is to give light must endure burning.
    Joined: Nov 2014
    Posts: 37
    C
    Junior Member
    Offline
    Junior Member
    C
    Joined: Nov 2014
    Posts: 37
    I have 3 daughters, the two oldest are very "un" girly, to be fair most of their friends aren't the Disney princess type either. I was very strongly anti-Disney as well but I doubt they'd have been very interested anyway. They're socially skilled but the most important interests they share with their friends are sports, physical playtime and reading.

    My youngest daughter is quite different. We've mellowed over time and we've limited the Disney to Frozen (we watch very little TV/DVDs) but she adores the characters, the music, the bl$$dy plaits and the costumes. My toddler son does too - he loves to dress up as Anna and/or Elsa. I think they'd like anything involving music and fun costumes though, they are enraptured by the nursery rhyme sessions at the library whereas my two older kids would always drift away quickly.

    All of mine learned about the Disney Princesses through the original fairy stories, although I waited till they were at school before the proper "The Little Mernaid". My main issue with Disney was the sanitising of the original stories - and my kids love the delicious grimness of the original tales. I'm also not hugely fond of the rescue fantasy themes within most of them, this is probably why I can tolerate Frozen more than the others.

    Joined: Aug 2010
    Posts: 3,428
    U
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    U
    Joined: Aug 2010
    Posts: 3,428
    Quote
    Little girls don't universally have an innate drive to imagine themselves as princesses-

    Sure. I agree. I also agree that the princess shtick is a big fat lot of marketing crap (though as to it playing to mothers' narcissism...I wouldn't go that far...I know plenty of non-narcissistic moms whose daughters have loved princesses). Why do you think my daughter had never seen a Disney movie at age 5? That was no accident, I can assure you. Anyway, I wanted my socially rather delayed child to have an "in" to daily pretend play that was excluding her. I think most parents would. Yes, I could have advised her to change the narrative, and btw, I did encourage her to play with the one other child who was not really into this, but that child only came two days a week mornings and my child was there 5 days/week FT.

    Quote
    I think it sends a positive message to children about their self-worth to support them in pursuing non-mainstream interests when the norm is irrelevant or uninteresting to them.

    No argument here. I've always supported my kids' non-mainstream interests, believe you me, and it's funny to find myself on this side of the argument!

    But I've gotten more careful about unilaterally placing pop culture on the We Do Not side of the equation. As has been pointed out, forbidden fruit is sweet, and also, children taste it anyway.

    aquinas, gently, am I right in thinking your child is still very young and not negotiating a lot of social situations without you yet? I had a lot more lines in the sand when my oldest was your child's age. Again, I certainly agree with the precept that one should not force a child to get on board with anything they dislike! My DD dislikes current pop music and I am totally fine with that.

    Joined: Aug 2010
    Posts: 3,428
    U
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    U
    Joined: Aug 2010
    Posts: 3,428
    I mean, the thing about all this talk about social IQ is...lordy, what do you think we've been trying to work on for YEARS with my oldest? Every day? It's not like we're not trying. This is not easy for all children.

    I'm actually kind of surprised, polarbear, that you didn't witness any media-influenced play during that playground time. Perhaps this is regional or socioeconomic. A regular complaint of my DS's is that most of the boys in his class want to play superheroes every day. He really dislikes superheroes...always has. It's a dominant narrative, though. (The other thing they play is football, which he doesn't like either because it's too rough.) He has a BFF who is not into this stuff and sometimes he can get them to do other things, but it's a drag for him. Now, we have another group of nonschool friends, much less media-influenced, where the play is all knights, dragons, and swords, or non-media general outdoor play, and he prefers this.

    Joined: Jun 2014
    Posts: 226
    C
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    C
    Joined: Jun 2014
    Posts: 226
    My DS7 also hates superheros - won't have anything to do with them. I don't really understand why. In kindergarten they were all into Star Wars - which DS knew nothing about but played along with. Now he doesn't like it (because - well it's about a war) and refused to watch the movie with me.

    Fortunately, the kids in his class this year are all into Pokemon and Minecraft.

    Joined: Oct 2011
    Posts: 2,856
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Oct 2011
    Posts: 2,856
    I wouldn't attribute the princess phenomenon to anything more sinister than casual sexism: "Oh, you're a girl, girls like princesses, here's princesses for you." Ditto boys and superheroes.

    My DD10 has liked Ariel for years (who starts out by rescuing the prince) and sees a lot of herself in Elsa (keeping in her emotions while bored out of her skull in class, and hiding her abilities), but otherwise thinks most princesses and their stories are stupid. DD is drawn to fiction with strong female leads: Hermione, Katniss, Tris. And, because nobody is practicing casual sexism in my household, she's also a fan of superheroes, particularly the whole Avengers franchise.

    Our DD is exposed to a lot of stuff her peers wouldn't be into, too, so it's not like she's immersed in current pop culture. DW and I don't have much common ground on music, so we're both exposing DD to very different kinds of music, and very little of the stuff I'm listening to can be found on the radio. DD is currently on a Tom Hanks kick, so while we have to screen/fast-forward for inappropriate content (Forrest Gump is a few years away), in recent months she has watched and re-watched Apollo 13, Castaway, The Terminal, and Big.

    The important thing about pop culture, though, is to, as I said, drag the ugliness out into the light and point out all its features. DD has had conversations with us about why those other princesses are stupid. We've all agreed that the lead character in Victorious is the least-talented female vocalist in the show, and we've discussed why she got the lead anyway, and how she represents unhealthy, unnatural body images. This is how we're countering the horrible messages society subtly and not-so-subtly conveys to impressionable young girls.

    Like aquinas, this topic does twig my feminism, too. If you're the father of a daughter, you either become a feminist, or you rhyme with glass pole.

    Page 6 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

    Moderated by  M-Moderator 

    Link Copied to Clipboard
    Recent Posts
    Testing with accommodations
    by aeh - 03/27/24 01:58 PM
    Quotations that resonate with gifted people
    by indigo - 03/27/24 12:38 PM
    New, and you'd think I'd have a clue...
    by astronomama - 03/24/24 06:01 AM
    For those interested in astronomy, eclipses...
    by indigo - 03/23/24 06:11 PM
    Son 2e, wide discrepancy between CogAT-Terranova
    by astronomama - 03/23/24 07:21 AM
    Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5