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    Joined: Feb 2011
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    Originally Posted by Dude
    Originally Posted by aquinas
    There is no redeeming value--either in terms of musicality or content-- to the over-produced, hyper-sexualized tweenie-bopper genre. Let her be a trendsetter by developing her own unique style.

    But but but but... what if that IS her style?

    Originally Posted by FruityDragons
    Among older (maybe 4th/5th grade, middle school, etc) kids, there is actually a subset of kids to whom Piano Guys are very much a thing.

    Indeed. My DD10 has taken an opportunity to show Piano Guys to every kid who comes over for the last couple of years.

    Which brings me to another point, because all of us old fuddy-duddies have to be careful not to overlook the social currency of YouTube. We have to treat it just like TV... there's a lot of inappropriate material, but as long as they stay within appropriate boundaries, they should be allowed to explore. My DD enjoys (and shares with her friends) song parodies (especially Minecraft ones), people playing Minecraft (especially this Tobuscus guy, who also does the aforementioned song parodies), fail videos, and kids filming themselves doing gymnastics.

    My goodness, YES.

    DD decided all on her own that Bieber and most of the former-Disney set were nothing but over-produced trash...

    and that Christina Aguilera, Lady Gaga, and Adele had real talent. It doesn't mean that she likes everything that they do, just that she doesn't roll her eyes at it or cringe about the social justice issues involved in such factory-produced material.

    Youtube-- well, I'm sure that she has SEEN some occasionally inappropriate material-- frankly, we've been in a continuous arms race since she was about 6yo in order to keep SOME controls on internet usage.

    But she isn't drawn to that really nasty stuff, doesn't care for it, and when she encounters it-- SHE self-regulates. In a hurry.

    Niki Minaj? DD's opinion is that this is just-- sad. In the same way that Lindsey Lohan or Miley Cyrus news is "sad."

    In related news (since someone else expressed an appreciation for Weird Al upthread):

    Black Death (Hollaback Girl parody)

    My DD discovered these when she was in World History in high school, but she would have thoroughly enjoyed them as young as 6 or 7. They are very much in the tradition of Horrible Histories. They are downright CLEVER, as well-- and DD, like most of the kids on these boards, loves clever.

    There are a few dozen of those:

    https://www.youtube.com/user/historyteachers/videos



    (The story of why the female teacher featured in those surprisingly good production quality videos started making them is a really neat aspect of the series, as well.)



    Last edited by HowlerKarma; 03/30/15 08:18 AM. Reason: to add second link

    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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    As for pop influences that are toxic for girls-- yeah. I hear that concern, and echo it. But Anaconda doesn't even register relative to the ubiquitous images of eating disordered teen role models featured in every square inch of media, coupled with clothing for young girls which is-- frankly-- bordering on OBSCENE in terms of modesty and, well-- coverage.

    Anyone who has parented a girl knows this through bitter experience-- once you leave TODDLER sizing, everything is "sexy" unless you make a very concerted effort to find the (increasingly rare) gems here and there, or opt to pay a small fortune for brands that cater to the preppy look instead.

    There is something seriously wrong when a parent can't find a one-piece swimsuit with full coverage-- for one's tiny, six year old daughter.


    THAT, I worry about far more than any music video on Youtube.

    We tackled it head-on, and dragged that toxic influence out into the open where we could poke and prod it and torture it until it confessed that it was after DD's self-worth. wink

    She's wise to it-- and I have no regrets whatsoever.


    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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    Originally Posted by HowlerKarma
    As for pop influences that are toxic for girls-- yeah. I hear that concern, and echo it. But Anaconda doesn't even register relative to the ubiquitous images of eating disordered teen role models featured in every square inch of media, coupled with clothing for young girls which is-- frankly-- bordering on OBSCENE in terms of modesty and, well-- coverage.

    Anyone who has parented a girl knows this through bitter experience-- once you leave TODDLER sizing, everything is "sexy" unless you make a very concerted effort to find the (increasingly rare) gems here and there, or opt to pay a small fortune for brands that cater to the preppy look instead.

    There is something seriously wrong when a parent can't find a one-piece swimsuit with full coverage-- for one's tiny, six year old daughter.


    THAT, I worry about far more than any music video on Youtube.

    We tackled it head-on, and dragged that toxic influence out into the open where we could poke and prod it and torture it until it confessed that it was after DD's self-worth. wink

    She's wise to it-- and I have no regrets whatsoever.

    Ditto.

    DD was in a Halloween costume contest at age 4(!) when the trophy was given to an off-the-shelf "sexy devil" costume. This is what you get when you invite the cheerleaders from local pro sports teams to be your judges. *gag*

    Since there's no hiding DD from this kind of unhealthy messaging, our role is to drag it out into the light of day, and show it to DD in all its ugliness. Here again, the internet has been a helpful tool, particularly the results of the search terms "photoshop fails."

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    Originally Posted by ultramarina
    I mean, we don't ever listen to commercial radio here, because we hate it, but DD is free to listen to it on her MP3 player (it has a radio) if she wants to. You don't want to be that parent who forbids The Popular Music, IMO. We have music on a lot of the time and the kids have developed interests and preferences, DD in particular. Her very cool music teacher says she has the best taste of any her students. (excuse me while I kvell)

    Anyway, what I was going to say is that music is kind of a non-issue at this age but you might want to make sure she's seen Frozen, etc and the standard popular movies. It might be good to have some vague familiarity with popular iPad games, too. I mean, if this kind of thing concerns you. We try to make sure the kids know about some of this stuff so they're not just totally off in our own personal family nerdworld at all times. Of course, we still don't have cable.

    The only music we listen to is the local listener supported classical radio station. At school, DS has classical music played in the background every day while the class does seat work. I used to listen to all kinds of music, but switched primarily to classical music when DS was 4 (that was 3 years ago). He is so used to it that sometimes he asks me to change from NPR back to the classical radio station.

    Strangely enough, music has zero social currency value for DS - his social circle is a group of 25 boys of his age group and 7 girls - all from diverse backgrounds - they play a lot - mostly games like 4 squares, volleyball, tag, basketball, bike riding etc. They also still like to play in the sand a lot. They are into active and physical play. And in the times that they talk, the topics always tend toward Starwars, Legos etc. I think that because most of the kids DS plays with are into very active physical play, they do not chat about music, "cool factors" etc. and social currency does not come into play in the dynamics. DS is a misfit due to other things - like his language proficiency that makes him stand out, his life experiences etc. - but not because of lack of exposure to popular music or popular TV shows.

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    Quote
    We tackled it head-on, and dragged that toxic influence out into the open where we could poke and prod it and torture it until it confessed that it was after DD's self-worth. wink

    She's wise to it-- and I have no regrets whatsoever.

    Quote
    Since there's no hiding DD from this kind of unhealthy messaging, our role is to drag it out into the light of day, and show it to DD in all its ugliness. Here again, the internet has been a helpful tool, particularly the results of the search terms "photoshop fails."

    Yes, all this. It's all an ongoing conversation and it started really young over here. Parental modeling is pretty huge, too. What is mom saying about her appearance and the appearance of other women? (best answer: nothing)

    Quote
    Their daughters are so young, yet they want make up, high heels, and their only goal is to be a princess.

    How old are these girls? IME, most American girls go through a "princess" phase around 3-6 that then goes away. (Mine didn't, but she's odd.) Princess/pink stuff may even be considered really babyish and uncool. My daughter and her friends currently have no interest in princesses, though there's starting to be some age-typical interest in clothes and makeup.

    Quote
    But Anaconda doesn't even register relative to the ubiquitous images of eating disordered teen role models featured in every square inch of media, coupled with clothing for young girls which is-- frankly-- bordering on OBSCENE in terms of modesty and, well-- coverage.

    Frankly, I'm not even that worked up about modesty in many ways (example: school dress codes are getting out of hand) but it drives me crazy when young girls' clothes and SHOES are too impractical to be active and PLAY in. I have had shoe rules forever. Yes, okay, you can have a pair or two for dressy occasions, but for everyday, you have to be able to RUN in them, scuff them up, etc. No heels! No tiny straps! And your clothes better not fall off your shoulder or down your butt when you move, either. Miniskirts for preschoolers are a nonstarter. I have seen too many girls under age 10 who were decked out like 20yo sorority girls, unable to play on the playground. Or, they do anyway and wreck their clothes and mom yells.


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    I've been thinking about this thread a bit over the weekend, and the thing that most comes to mind (for me) when reading the thoughts and comments is - we can't really over-predict what other kids in any one class in any one year are going to be talking about or excited about. Trying to forecast and prepare our kids for what we think will be the pop-music or pop-movie or pop-whatever of the day conversation on the playgroung in a few months or next year is somewhat of an exercise in futility. We might get it, but we are also just as likely will be way off the mark.

    My take on what makes for "social currency" in early elementary is related to a child's personality, social awareness, and social skills. Please note that by social awareness I'm not talking about which song is popular on the playground, but rather how a child reads cues from other kids, how empathetic they are, how interested they are in other children. Each of my three kids has had a different experience making friends and fitting in in kindergarten/early elementary - and I think that how it all worked out had more to do with social "IQ" than with issues arising from being an intellectual outlier. And the cool thing is, social "IQ" is something we can work on with our kids.

    Best wishes,

    polarbear

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    Originally Posted by ultramarina
    Frankly, I'm not even that worked up about modesty in many ways (example: school dress codes are getting out of hand) but it drives me crazy when young girls' clothes and SHOES are too impractical to be active and PLAY in. I have had shoe rules forever. Yes, okay, you can have a pair or two for dressy occasions, but for everyday, you have to be able to RUN in them, scuff them up, etc. No heels! No tiny straps! And your clothes better not fall off your shoulder or down your butt when you move, either. Miniskirts for preschoolers are a nonstarter. I have seen too many girls under age 10 who were decked out like 20yo sorority girls, unable to play on the playground. Or, they do anyway and wreck their clothes and mom yells.
    THIS. I've never understood why dress codes why it's a big deal when young girls wear spaghetti straps t-shirts on a hot day. What's wrong with shoulders? On the other hand I agree that too many clothes for young girls are designed to make them look like they are 19 and going out to a hot date.

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    polarbear, I get what you're saying, but if your family tends to be pretty removed from pop culture (we are) it's possible to forget to tune in to occasional detriment. I don't think it's a huge deal, but it's like a conversational icebreaker. Oh, you like Angry Birds? You like Elsa? Me too. How about those Red Sox?

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    My 14 yr old listens to NPR and the Broadway channel. She has plenty of friends and is happy.

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    Our social currency stuff for DD was pretty carefully selected. It's not like we kept her away from everything else, by any means. Nothing is verboten here, really-- but you have to be willing to tolerate being questioned about your choices, that's all. So why do you think that Justin Bieber is "the greatest" then? What do you mean by that?

    Pop culture currency for DD (over the years, I mean):

    Disney movies

    PBS kid shows (even Caillou, which I loathed with every fiber of my being)

    Books-- whatever, whenever, and yeah, Captain Underpants was King for a while.

    Wii games, some of them potty-humor based (but no xbox)

    DSi personal gaming console, and games for it

    Television-- DD has seen enough reality television to know what it is (American Idol, DWTS, Survivor, Amazing Race, and the cooking shows-- and enough to have little interest in Big Brother or other trashier fare along those lines), The Simpsons, Walking Dead (okay, that's her dad's influence), South Park. Sports, but DD really only likes Olympic events and baseball.

    BBC television shows-- she is a long-time Doctor Who fan, and has been pleased to discover that this makes her "cool" with most peers.

    Pokemon, though we've had to limit this one.

    Tabletop RPG (again, we've imposed limits).


    That seems to give her enough in common with peers that she can navigate her way to finding a group of friends with ease. Cards Against Humanity, she discovered all on her own. blush Then again-- do recall that DD is nearly 16, and that she is a college student-- we have little control over this at this point.

    If anything, we've encouraged some of this as a means of building some social currency with others, since DD hasn't been educated in a group setting where the exposure would have happened naturally.




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