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    #212706 - 03/15/15 11:12 AM Re: Why do we have to label our children? [Re: DeeDee]
    JonLaw Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/29/11
    Posts: 2007
    Loc: The Sub-Tropics
    Originally Posted By: DeeDee
    Do you object to the "gifted" label as well as to disability labels?


    Gifted is a particularly bad word to use as a label.

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    #212709 - 03/15/15 11:49 AM Re: Why do we have to label our children? [Re: whereditgo]
    Mom2Two Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/30/07
    Posts: 99
    Education is about fighting immediate fires, so you need to have a fire going to get help. The label creates a fire.

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    #212712 - 03/15/15 12:23 PM Re: Why do we have to label our children? [Re: whereditgo]
    bluemagic Offline
    Member

    Registered: 03/29/13
    Posts: 1489
    I fought this myself when my DD20 was in 2nd grade. I didn't see the need to 'label' her. She was a sweet, lovable little girl. She was a bit young for her grade and not quite keeping up the pace with the other kids, but she was learning and she was happy. And at the time in the lower grades her elementary school was helping every kid that seemed to be struggling. What pushed me over the edge was noticing that our school budgets were shrinking. So as others say it's bureaucracy. The only one to guarantee that she continue to get services was to get her labeled.

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    #212720 - 03/15/15 03:39 PM Re: Why do we have to label our children? [Re: whereditgo]
    ndw Offline
    Member

    Registered: 11/29/13
    Posts: 314
    Labels are actually very important to provide a precise language of discussion which contributes to understanding, intervention and research. "Labels" differentiate and this can be very important because a symptom or sign can be caused by a variety of underlying problems which require different solutions. A medical example is talking about raised blood sugar. That is an imprecise description of a circumstance. It is very important to determine if the problem is being caused by islet cell failure, insulin resistance, related to medication or underlying sepsis as a few examples.
    Poor handwriting can be due to a neurological problem, a vision disorder, motor disability etc. The labels are more precise ways to describe the issue at hand, there is often an attempt to relate the disability to a cause and this assists both with recognition of the fundamental issue and the interventions required to assist. An accurate diagnosis, with its label, also helps if there are known secondary issues that might be attached to a disorder which are yet to present or be recognised as they can be monitored for presentation. Ultimately it also helps in identifying different categories of disability to research more about the underlying problem.
    Value judgements attached to labels are a separate issue. That is better overcome by education and exposure than denial of diagnosis.

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    #212723 - 03/15/15 04:58 PM Re: Why do we have to label our children? [Re: polarbear]
    ljoy Offline
    Member

    Registered: 05/28/11
    Posts: 269
    Originally Posted By: polarbear
    Originally Posted By: ljoy

    Every time I try to put my square-peg DD12 into the round-hole public school, we end up with a new round of testing to prove that there's something wrong with her. When she leaves, the need for diagnosis magically disappears.

    ...I probably haven't explained this well, but as a parent of two children who are both intellectually gifted and also have disabilities, it's simply not the same thing as saying "my child doesn't fit here therefore I should test for a disability". My kids' issues extend outside the classroom, outside any classroom, and they don't go away just by finding them a gifted classroom or better overall intellectually challenging classroom.


    I do understand. In our case, DD needs more time for everything. Lots more time. In our schools, she manages perfectly average to slightly below grades if she works three times as long as the other kids, so we have to prove that this is actually a disability so she can be accommodated. We have to demonstrate below grade level performance. Outside, the teachers see how much she struggles and are able to give her the time she needs without the labels; the disability doesn't go away, it just stops requiring a label.

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    #212730 - 03/16/15 05:16 AM Re: Why do we have to label our children? [Re: whereditgo]
    Wesupportgifted Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/14/13
    Posts: 157
    I just think of it as how humans handle or process information; we categorize, classify, compare, say it is more like this and less like that in order to have a way of communicating our understanding to date. The labels are not the endpoint; it can be a helpful beginning to a solution for a plan or approach or next step, etc.

    I find the printing / handwriting issue fascinating; it is sometimes an issue for us, too. Maybe our brains move faster than our hands? We keep thinking, in the future, it may be a non-issue. Presumably, we could be so much more productive if what we are communicating is at the speed of thought rather than hand.

    Gifted kids tend to 'get labeled' right at the beginning of social activity simply because the largest group in the middle always point out our differences, might bully us, and try to assimilate us into the bigger group; in adolescence, it is called peer pressure, but even as adults there are pressures to conform to ways of behavior.

    As far as I know, in any society, the percentage of intellectual types is always less than the other roles people might play in groups. Maybe in some way, it is natural (by natural design) that if everyone was a more cerebral type it would not benefit groups overall, even though it might mean less labeling.

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    #212739 - 03/16/15 07:46 AM Re: Why do we have to label our children? [Re: JonLaw]
    cmguy Offline
    Member

    Registered: 03/30/14
    Posts: 387
    Originally Posted By: JonLaw
    Originally Posted By: DeeDee
    Do you object to the "gifted" label as well as to disability labels?


    Gifted is a particularly bad word to use as a label.



    I much prefer "asynchronous".


    Edited by cmguy (03/16/15 07:53 AM)

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    #212743 - 03/16/15 08:21 AM Re: Why do we have to label our children? [Re: ljoy]
    polarbear Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/29/11
    Posts: 3363
    Originally Posted By: ljoy
    Originally Posted By: polarbear
    Originally Posted By: ljoy

    Every time I try to put my square-peg DD12 into the round-hole public school, we end up with a new round of testing to prove that there's something wrong with her. When she leaves, the need for diagnosis magically disappears.

    ...I probably haven't explained this well, but as a parent of two children who are both intellectually gifted and also have disabilities, it's simply not the same thing as saying "my child doesn't fit here therefore I should test for a disability". My kids' issues extend outside the classroom, outside any classroom, and they don't go away just by finding them a gifted classroom or better overall intellectually challenging classroom.


    I do understand. In our case, DD needs more time for everything. Lots more time. In our schools, she manages perfectly average to slightly below grades if she works three times as long as the other kids, so we have to prove that this is actually a disability so she can be accommodated. We have to demonstrate below grade level performance. Outside, the teachers see how much she struggles and are able to give her the time she needs without the labels; the disability doesn't go away, it just stops requiring a label.


    ljoy, I'm sorry - I misunderstood what you meant before - I thought that you meant that "outside" the things that seemed to be an issue at school disappeared, when instead you were referring to the need for the label.

    Originally Posted By: ljoy
    the disability doesn't go away, it just stops requiring a label.

    I still believe having the "label" has been very helpful for my 2e kiddos outside of just getting accommodations at school. Dysgraphia/DCD/dyslexia are issues that impact them in areas of life outside of school, knowing what the diagnosis is makes a difference in how you approach accommodating and remediating, and each of them appreciates understanding what their diagnosis is. Sometimes getting *to* the correct diagnosis is a long journey - it definitely was for our dyslexic dd... but having it has still been extremely helpful in understanding how to help her. So I guess I'm not sure how you get to that point without having the label?

    polarbear

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    #212744 - 03/16/15 08:24 AM Re: Why do we have to label our children? [Re: whereditgo]
    DeeDee Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/16/10
    Posts: 2498
    Describing reality precisely is, in general, a useful problem-solving tool. First you have to know what's going on, before you can know how to move ahead. Having precise words for challenges and strengths is, for my family, part of that.

    (We don't say "gifted" either-- we like to be precise.)

    Our experience is like Polar's.

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    #212745 - 03/16/15 08:40 AM Re: Why do we have to label our children? [Re: ljoy]
    Dude Offline
    Member

    Registered: 10/04/11
    Posts: 2856
    Originally Posted By: ljoy
    What Jon said.
    Every time I try to put my square-peg DD12 into the round-hole public school, we end up with a new round of testing to prove that there's something wrong with her. When she leaves, the need for diagnosis magically disappears.


    Indeed.

    The factory model of education requires taking round pegs and pushing them through the correctly-sized holes. But because we're talking about highly-variable individuals, even the most conforming pegs are best described as round-ish, and the education factory just selects the best-fitting hole, and pounds the peg through with as much effort as it needs.

    Because we know there are enough pegs for which the round holes are a complete disaster, the workers have been provided with a handful of other shapes... square, oval, star, etc. The pegs who "fit" into those holes are even more variable than the round ones, but that's okay, we can just use bigger hammers.

    Pegs that are square (gifted) and starred (LD) at the same time make workers frantic, because one peg can only go in one hole.

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