Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment CogAT results question, additional testing?

My first post, so a brief background. Two DC presumed gifted, no IQ testing, in a strong public school, just now establishing early GT help at school, so this is all pretty new to me. I've spent a couple weeks of free time reading thru the forums and have a few questions about testing.

My main question relates to the CogAT. Some folks here seem to put less weight into that test because it misses a segment of gifted kids, and some indicate it may instead show high-ability but not-actually-gifted kid as gifted. Does that apply if you see giftedness from the various gifted characteristic lists, plus various over-exciteabilities and intensities, and if you know your child is frustrated with the slow pace of school, grasps things very quickly, makes mental leaps, etc? I feel like I'm somehow not supposed to really trust the result, while at the same time, I feel validated in my long-held suspicions.

DS9 took the at-grade-level CogAT in Nov (just recently got the results) and scored very high [edited to remove scores] (I now wish they had tested above grade level). The school does not officially start their GT until grade 4.His teacher is very supportive of his need for more challenge now. There's no formal structured plan for continued growth and assessment, just fit enrichment and differentiation in along with the regular curriculum.

If a student is capable of 5th grade work (to start with) in grade 3, when is grade acceleration in consideration? Wouldn't that be wise to consider before fall since 6th grade is a school switch? I suspect they are concerned with possible gaps, but he's was already exceeding several grade standards at term 1 and most at term 2. My concerns are with appropriate challenge to head off perfectionism and eventual possible fear of failure when challenged, and I don't see how something like growth in reading can be improved in the present context.

Is the main benefit of IQ testing at this point that it might establish a need to grade accelerate or push for earlier services?
Is IQ testing a necessity for the Iowa Acceleration Scale?
Is IQ going to be appropriate/accurate when tested on newly 9yo? I read that gifted kids are best tested age 4.5-8.

Hi longcut, welcome! I cannot answer all your questions, but I'll give some of them a try.

First, the CogAT. I would not discount a high score like that. My HG+ son scored similarly. It is not an IQ test, but it is a test that shows that your child will likely do well in the GT program the school offers. I see more concerns on this page about the test missing some over-thinking HG kids, but that doesn't always happen either.

It's great that your DS's teacher is so supportive! You ask about acceleration. I think that if your kiddo is working 2 years ahead across the board, it is definitely something to at least discuss with the school. It is easier for teachers to differentiate when the base level of the grade is closer to where the student is working, and there is more of a likelihood of additional company working at that level.

IQ testing -- is it necessary? Well, that depends. Is it required to gain access to anything you want for your kid? If you want him to be in a particular program at school, will the school even consider IQ testing? Does the school provide the testing for you? Would you want that if they did?

I am not sure if the IAS will substitute something like the CogAT for the IQ portion of the survey, but if you are really considering a grade skip, I think an IQ test would be able to give you more information about whether your child would be a good candidate. A certain number of points are added up for each section of the IAS. I would imagine it's possible that you could still end up with a "good candidate for skipping" score even without an IQ test if there were strong scores in the rest of the survey. But I haven't seen the IAS for years, so I cannot say for sure whether it is a required component. I do highly recommend using the IAS when considering a grade skip, though. Helps to convince parents and the school one way or the other with all the objective considerations.

We did use IQ testing successfully with the local school to get some differentiation in kindergarten (when at the time no GT programming started before 3rd grade). The GT coordinator at the school was very helpful and really understood what the scores meant. Many teachers have no clue what IQ results mean, and so they would be useless. I would ask his current supportive teacher or his ELP teacher their thoughts on these issues, if you feel comfortable. or if there is a school or district GT coordinator, maybe that's a good start.

The Explore test is a great out of level test to use to see where your kids are, but I think that may not be an option anymore (or else this might be the last year it is being used). Check with Belin-Blank to see how long this test will be supported. It is a relatively inexpensive way to see how different your kiddo is.

Good luck. Sorry for rambling.

Much of what I am going to say is going to agree with st pauli girl. I think that you are on the right track. The CoGAT misses some gifted kiddos, but correctly identifies others. The CogAT actually offered a decent preview of DYS DD9's relative strengths and weaknesses on the WISC. She also scored in the 99th percentile, so it did not miss her.

I would also recommend the EXPLORE, as DD had a great experience with it.

The best school for a kiddo like this is a school that is flexible, IMO. These kids grow and change so quickly!

Like others before us, we had DD take the EXPLORE to see how she would do. That led to having her take the WISC. That led to us deciding to have DS6 tested so we wouldn't be as clueless with our second child as we had been with our first. DS is now a DYS, too.

How helpful is the outside testing in terms of working with your school? Well, it depends - we are still working with ours, but it did get the conversation started.

In terms of age of testing, my reading on this has stumbled across a variety of opinions. Most of the testing concerns with children over 8 has actually been with girls - apparently, they sometimes start to "hide" their gifts at this age (this was part of the reason we opted to have DD tested at age 8). I did not see any similar concerns expressed for boys.

Best wishes to you and your DC!

Thanks, st pauli girl! I didn't realize when I posted that I had written such a lengthy post, and appreciate your time. :-)

Great questions about what the school will offer, not sure if they would do the IQ testing for IAS or not. I know my insurance won't cover it purely for assessment. Looks like I need to meet the ELP teacher.

When I saw the EXPLORE dates and then mentions of the phasing out, that was disappointing! It seems that Talent Search programs will continue to use it using old norms until new testing is phased in (like Aspire).

Although group screening tests have a high error rate, that doesn't mean they are usually wrong. If the results match what you experience in real life, great. But if they don't - - - well, then it's worth seeking a more accurate assessment before assuming you are crazy! Parents are usually found to be pretty good judges of their kids exceptionalities.

Welcome!
1) The main benefit of IQ testing may be getting to know your child's strengths and relative weaknesses, while gaining an understanding of any compensating which your child may be doing. Being well-informed empowers parents to coach their child at home and also to best advocate for their appropriate education. Regarding your husband not seeing value in knowing a number, the IQ test would provide a series of numbers, based upon subtests taken.

2) Yes, the IAS considers IQ, among other criteria.

3) Accuracy of IQ tests may be influenced by a variety of factors, discussed on other threads on the forum, including How much error can there be in test scores?.

Thank you everyone for great input, clarification, and for giving me some direction! Much appreciated. Will discuss with DH from here. :-)

And I will look into whether BESTS will offer more dates for EXPLORE on their own, or if I should jump on the June 9 date (which isn't an ideal date or travel situation, but if it's the last time and no alternatives are available, that changes things).

Thought I would share that I heard back from Belin-Blank (BESTS). The EXPLORE test will be available for Talent Searches for at least one more year, and that DS would need to wait until the fall date (typically in November) to qualify as a 4th grader. Dates will be posted by ACT in mid to late August.

Here's another resource for possibly evaluating your child's learning strengths: Mindprint. I have not used this resource, but found it in a recent Davidson tweet announcing the current list of "What's New" on the Davidson Database: Resource: Mindprint.

Interesting Indigo. If anyone tries it, I hope they will report back with their impressions.