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    #211331 - 02/24/15 04:07 PM Re: how much homework should my DD11 be doing? [Re: LLR]
    PanzerAzelSaturn
    Unregistered


    I'm all about no homework. To me, school is like work for kids. None of us like to bring work home with us, why should our children have to?

    I honestly never really did homework in school. When my teacher said do problems 1-144, even only, I just chucked my book in my locker after class and took the 0. I put no effort whatsoever into school.

    When I got to college and grades mattered and I cared, well, I looked at the syllabus for the classes before I signed up and chose only classes that had no homework.

    I had no trouble in college and was always a top student. I listened in class and read the text the night before tests and aced all of my tests. If there were papers to write, I wrote them the night before and usually was late to class waiting on them to print the following day.

    After college I've always been a good employee, never been fired or disciplined for anything. I keep my home clean and I manage to take care of everything that needs done with my sons therapies and medical needs.

    So, yeah, I don't think work ethic is something you need to drill into kids by making their lives miserable and monotonous. I think it's bad enough they have to spend so much time in an institution each day. Childhood is gone before you know it. Looking back on mine the last thing I find myself thinking is that I wish that I had played less and worked more.

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    #211332 - 02/24/15 05:30 PM Re: how much homework should my DD11 be doing? [Re: ]
    Bostonian Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/14/10
    Posts: 2603
    Loc: MA
    Originally Posted By: PanzerAzelSaturn
    When I got to college and grades mattered and I cared, well, I looked at the syllabus for the classes before I signed up and chose only classes that had no homework.

    In math, physics, computer science, and other subjects, you learn primarily by grappling with problem sets. I did.

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    #211333 - 02/24/15 05:56 PM Re: how much homework should my DD11 be doing? [Re: Bostonian]
    Val Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/01/07
    Posts: 3290
    Loc: California
    Originally Posted By: PanzerAzelSaturn
    When I got to college and grades mattered and I cared, well, I looked at the syllabus for the classes before I signed up and chose only classes that had no homework.


    TBH, this isn't something I'd brag about (or maybe even admit).

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    #211334 - 02/24/15 07:00 PM Re: how much homework should my DD11 be doing? [Re: MomC]
    Cookie Offline
    Member

    Registered: 05/28/14
    Posts: 599
    Originally Posted By: MomC
    My dd11 rarely has homework. Her school is a private school for gifted and their philosophy is that the kids should work hard during school hours and that afterschool should be for recreation. Sometimes dd has reading to finish if they are using a lengthy text; or studies for a test; but there is no regularly assigned homework. Dd does study hard at school and I know that she's learning a ton so I love the school's philosophy. I agree with others that you should check with the school.


    This is exactly how it should be. Reading to finish and review for a test is plenty of homework...kids have sports practice, instruments lessons, scout stuff to do, religious or community activities, games to play, bikes to ride, trees to climb, dogs to walk, chores, showers, dinner and pleasure reading. Nobody has time for more than 15-20 minutes of homework.

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    #211339 - 02/24/15 08:08 PM Re: how much homework should my DD11 be doing? [Re: Bostonian]
    Tallulah Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/25/10
    Posts: 480
    Firmly in the anti homework camp here.

    Originally Posted By: Bostonian
    Originally Posted By: PanzerAzelSaturn
    When I got to college and grades mattered and I cared, well, I looked at the syllabus for the classes before I signed up and chose only classes that had no homework.

    In math, physics, computer science, and other subjects, you learn primarily by grappling with problem sets. I did.


    Which is why my grades slowly drooped at university. Giving kids work that's far too easy for their whole lives does them no favors. I was in my late 20s before I discovered that you could actually work to understand something you didn't immediately grasp. What a concept!

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    #211340 - 02/24/15 08:10 PM Re: how much homework should my DD11 be doing? [Re: Bostonian]
    Tallulah Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/25/10
    Posts: 480
    Originally Posted By: Bostonian
    Originally Posted By: cmguy
    There was a movie made about homework a few years ago ("Race to Nowhere" was the appropriate title). I remember way way way too much homework - to the point where it was harmful as other posters noted.

    One reason some high school students are spending so much time on homework is that they are not smart enough for some of the classes they are taking. Pushing everyone to take AP classes has become a political crusade. Some AP Calculus teachers may be assigning too much homework, but there are also some students taking AP Calculus who have not mastered algebra and trigonometry and therefore struggle with calculus problems.


    There was no trigonometry in the calculus I learnt.

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    #211344 - 02/24/15 10:48 PM Re: how much homework should my DD11 be doing? [Re: Tallulah]
    Val Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/01/07
    Posts: 3290
    Loc: California
    Originally Posted By: Tallulah
    Originally Posted By: Bostonian
    Originally Posted By: cmguy
    There was a movie made about homework a few years ago ("Race to Nowhere" was the appropriate title). I remember way way way too much homework - to the point where it was harmful as other posters noted.

    One reason some high school students are spending so much time on homework is that they are not smart enough for some of the classes they are taking. Pushing everyone to take AP classes has become a political crusade. Some AP Calculus teachers may be assigning too much homework, but there are also some students taking AP Calculus who have not mastered algebra and trigonometry and therefore struggle with calculus problems.


    There was no trigonometry in the calculus I learnt.



    Bostonian, a lot of K-12 homework is busywork and of limited or no value to student learning. My middle schoolers are routinely assigned word searches and other silly assignments that don't teach them anything, yet take a lot of time to complete.

    That said, I agree with the idea that a lot of students are taking courses that are too hard for them, or, alternatively, overall course loads that are too much for them cognitively.

    Then there is the factor of bad course design combined with bad textbooks. One of my kids was forced into a crappy pre-algebra course last year and two hours a night wasn't enough for him to learn that material. Even my eldest (math whiz) would have done poorly in that course. It was a mess of mixed-up concepts from beginning to end.

    Talullah, maybe you took a very light calculus course or you've forgotten the course content. It's not really possible to get a proper grounding in calculus without trigonometry.

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    #211346 - 02/24/15 11:03 PM Re: how much homework should my DD11 be doing? [Re: Tallulah]
    bluemagic Offline
    Member

    Registered: 03/29/13
    Posts: 1489
    Originally Posted By: Tallulah

    There was no trigonometry in the calculus I learnt.

    I'm going to second the above comment. Tallulah, you defiantly need a good grounding in Trig to do well in calculus. Perhaps you can get through the fist semester of Calculus without it, it's been a while since I've taken it. Looking online what you need is exactly what my DS is doing in pre-calc the trig identities. Many times Trig is rolled into an Algebra II course. In fact this is part of the new CC implementation. But you do need to have seen and understood Trigonometry before finishing a full year of college calculus.


    Edited by bluemagic (02/24/15 11:07 PM)

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    #211348 - 02/25/15 02:14 AM Re: how much homework should my DD11 be doing? [Re: bluemagic]
    puffin Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/11/12
    Posts: 2035
    I did first year calculus at university and don't remember any trig either. I will have to check my books sometime.

    I think if they did things a bit more efficiently at school they wouldn't need to send homework. But I think the lack efficiency isn't due to the teacher. Mixed ability classes and teamwork waste a lot of time as does teaching things that should be able to be left to the parents. Breaks are never a waste though and I would drop something else rather than cut into those. I remember thinking as a kid that if the teachers coukd just get on with it we would finish before lunch. I don't remember homework but I had a lot of down time.

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    #211350 - 02/25/15 04:20 AM Re: how much homework should my DD11 be doing? [Re: LLR]
    madeinuk Offline
    Member

    Registered: 03/18/13
    Posts: 1451
    Loc: NJ
    I feel the same way on principle as PanzerAxelSaturn but recognize the pragmatic reality expressed by Bostonian's comments wrt learning by grappling with problems.

    On top of that, I wrestle with my conscience several times a day because I after school my DD10 using AoPS. I was a terrible student as a kid and looking back I believe that I was disengaged from school academics because I was under challenged - when interested or motivated by a good teacher I shone but mostly I cruised.

    I know that unstructured time in the evenings and weekends is vitally important to a child but also that being under challenged is also fatal.

    My DD (5th grade) gets about 30mins to an hour of regular school homework 4 nights a week plus about 5 hours of AoPS a week where a large chunk of that time is spent on the written challenge problem.

    After Friday, when she finishes her Algebra 1 class she will do a Python class to have a break for a couple of months.




    Edited by madeinuk (02/25/15 04:22 AM)
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