Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Please help me work through recommendations

The neuropsych eval we had for my child was very helpful. We just have one page list of recommendations. He has no specific academic needs, except that the psychologist has suggested that he should be challenged in the areas he excels in, and that he has mild perfectionist tendencies. The psychologist has mainly suggested social skills groups and some amount of organizational help. He is gifted with mild Aspergers. In order to prepare for my child's IEP, please help me through what I should be requesting/bringing up in the meeting (I realize that the school may not be able to give all of these, but I am hoping that the :

- Social skills group
- Speech pragmatics
- OT assessment (BOT)(someone from the school to administer this)
- PAL- 2/Test of Written Language (someone to administer this)
- Resource teacher for organizational skills support. Typically, what amount of time does a child spend with the resource teacher ?
- Pre testing where possible (for math and spelling). However, if he does do well in the pre-test, what should I be asking for (when the rest of the class is doing their work) ?Do parents typically send in work at a level that their child is capable of doing ?


I also have a question for IEP with partner work. According to his teacher, he either works ahead (without really collaborating with his partner) or works behind (with his partner, but having discussions unrelated to the topic at hand), making partner work not all that effective. How can this be helped ?

Also, the Connors assessment showed signs of inattention. Right now, he does the work all the time, but not always within the time provided. He usually loses some minutes of recess or his reading time, and he gets a lot more done in those few minutes (and joins the rest of the class for recess and reading time). Should I be requesting additional time for in-class work ? So far, tests (as long as he knows those are tests) haven't been an issue. For homework, we just set apart about 30 minutes, and he gets it done in 20 to 30 minutes.

Thanks in advance.

Hi -

How do you and your DS feel about him missing reading time and recess to complete work? If you guys prefer that to having to do it later, that's A-OK. But my DS felt shamed by having to stay in at recess or lunch to finish work

As it turns out, in California (where we are) there is actually a law that says a teacher MAY NOT keep a child in at recess or lunch. This is based on the idea that kids need the down time and physical activity in order to be able to learn when they are in the class room.

Of course, many teachers are unaware of the law, and/or flout it. I mentioned it (calmly) and repeatedly demanded that any uncompleted work come home where I could help DS7 finish it, so he could go play at recess and lunch. It took a while, but finally the teacher complied and (surprise, surprise) things got a bit better for DS and for her in the classroom.

Anyway - if you're Ok with the work coming home, I would surely put that into the IEP.

Sue

In general, parents may find it most effective to list out:
1) the specific skill deficits to be addressed,
2) ways in which the skills may be acquired (taught/learned/practiced),
3) measures which will indicate progress or mastery for each skill.
More info at this link to Wrightslaw Game Plan: writing smart IEPs.

You may have read this elsewhere on the forums, but wrightslaw and the book From Emotions to Advocacy are helpful resources, as is NCLD.

Perfectionistic tendencies may be a sign of developing a fixed mindset rather than a growth mindset. One aspect or application is that gifted kids may stop taking appropriate risks in order to always be "right" or always be "smart" or never be "wrong", and this may work against them. The concept is nicely summarized in these youtube videos:
Ashley Merryman & Po Bronson: The Myth of Praise (link- )
Teaching a Growth Mindset (link- )

Parents may wish to read the book Mindset by Carol Dweck for tips on promoting a growth mindset.

Parents may also wish to read up on perfectionism. A book which seems to understand perfectionism very well and which many find supportive is What To Do When Good Enough Isn't Good Enough. Another book you might like is Perfectionism: What's Bad About Being Too Good. While insightful, these are written gently for kids, in a style that is fun and engaging. With any of these books it may be wise for a parent to pre-read and decide if it seems to be a helpful tool to use in guiding their child.

Procrastination may be closely related to perfectionism.

Resources such as Gifted Kid's Survival Guide, The Unwritten Rules of Friendship, You are a Social Detective, and social thinking (perspective taking) may be helpful.

This is often termed executive function (EF) skills. NCLD is one source of information on executive function.
NCLD is now Understood.org. Here are two links which may be of interest:
1) [b][i]Understanding Executive Functioning Issues[/i][/b]
2) [b][i]8 Key Executive Functions [/i][/b]- Jan 8, 2013

Well, DS does not like missing recess or reading time, but it acts as a motivator to get work done. He has always said that he does not see the point of doing the work for the sake of doing work, but I explained to him as a 'respect' issue -- so he atleast does the work.

I did not realize it was a law in California. The teacher has held him back for a maximum of about 10 of the 20 minutes they get for recess. She is frustrated because she knows he can complete the work quickly, just that he sometimes thinks about other things, instead of completing the work.

I will ask for excessive work to be brought back home. Do you turn it around the very next day ?

SS group: most schools can do this easily. Well, is another question. You're looking for something that has both a direct instruction and a live/laboratory practice component.

Speech: was there a speech eval done? If not, you might want to start from requesting a pragmatics eval, by the school SLP. They usually have more buy-in, and a better sense of clinical concerns, if they have done their own testing.

BOT2 and PAL-2/TOWL-4 testing: this should not be a big deal for the school to deliver.

Organizational support: depending on the needs of the child, and the service delivery model of the school, this can be anything from cues and reminders during class (in an inclusion or co-taught model), all the way out to a whole study skills period (40-50 minutes). So the time out of class/instruction depends a great deal on how much organization he needs, and what resources the school has available. I've spent the majority of my time in schools with a strongly inclusive philosophy, which means that org support often doesn't take up much more out of class time than, say a fifteen minute check-in at the beginning/end/both ends of the day. The preference has been to have a special education co-teacher or special education assistant in a general education classroom cue or scaffold students with organization in the flow of the class. (E.g., as the content teacher announces the homework assignment, the co-teacher cues the student to write it down in his agenda, and makes sure that it is accurately recorded.)

Pre-testing: depending on the level of independence of your child, I would say, moving ahead/compacting in the existing curriculum.

Extended time: I would be very cautious about the use of extended time for children who are described as being inattentive, and being able to finish very efficiently when under time pressure. For ADHD-type students, the optimal time supported by research is additional 25% time, and no more. As all of us procrastinators know, tasks grow to fill the available time. I would suggest instead:
"Tasks broken down into multiple benchmarks, each with its own deadline/time limit. Provide positive reinforcement immediately and consistently for completion of each task component."
He may be better off having many short deadlines than one big deadline.

As a corollary, if slow work completion is one of the felt needs of the school, then you might consider including that as one of the study skills/organizational skills goals, or a measurable objective thereunder, in the IEP.

Turn-around depends on the nature of the work. I've asked the teacher to flag when the work needs to be done by next day in order to move on to another step with the work. If it's not flagged this way, I let it sit for a day or two, because DS often has some frustration/anger built up about the work. I find it's easier to get him to work well if I let those feelings dissipate a bit.

Side-note: as time has gone on, I've seen less and less work come home. In talking to the teacher about this, we concluded that removing the specter of impending humiliation/punishment for incomplete work actually helped DS work more effectively and quickly. He wasn't wasting brain power fretting about what would happen if he didn't finish. So - for example - he now lists the previously reviled "Writer's Workshop" as among his favorite parts of class.

Sue

This is good to know. I did not understand the part about direct instruction and a live/laboratory practice component. What are those ?


A speech eval was not done. The neuropsych did mentioned a pragmatics service to be delivered, though I certainly see the buy-in if the SLP does their own eval. I will ask for this, and see what the school says


I don't think that there is any classroom in the school with co-teachers. I've talked informally to other parents, and they did reference a resource teacher. His regular teacher does this -- if she sees him not being on task or focused, she places a warning flag. He responds to the warning flag, pulls himself toegther and gets down to it. Most days, he is able to complete the work, though on some days, he does have a portion of his recess/reading time taken away.

I do think he'll benefit if the teacher can check in with him at beginning of school and end of school. I will ask if this is possible


He's quite independent on the iPad or online learning; I am not sure how he'll do if he is given a stack of worksheets and asked to complete them. This is one reason that makes me hesitate, even though he told me he does things at class for the sake of doing them.


This is overall awesome. I will ask for this. I totally agree with this.


Thanks for this. We have been tracking his work completion for 4 weeks, and he was not able to finish work on one day (he said he just ran out of time). However, he does work, say, 10 minutes into his recess time or reading time to complete his work. I talked with him more, and he said he does not really treat it as a consequence, more on the lines of, "Yes, this is what happens if you don't/can't complete your work"; it is almost like he accepts it, but I can't understand what is different toward the end of the day/recess that makes him do it faster (other than the threat of losing recess time /reading time). He also told me it is easier to get work done (though he can't seem to exactly pinpoint why) during those few minutes.

Direct instruction would be explicitly teaching social skills, in a counseling or small group setting: When you meet a new person, and you want to try to make friends, you do step 1, 2, 3,.

Practice in a lab setting would be, in the social skills group: now we're going to practice introducing ourselves to each other. Steve, what do you do first?...

Live practice would be introducing yourself to an actual new person to your class.

Ideally, one would want to learn/practice skills in the sheltered social skills group setting until comfortable, then begin with some prepared live practice--where the social skills coach works with a sympathetic member of the natural community (teacher, friendly custodian, empathetic peer) to stage a situation outside of the group, but with a social partner who is in on the skill development goals. From there, one progresses to increasingly naturalistic and independent practice of the skill.

aeh, you had to know I wouldn't be able to resist commenting on this. I had a good chuckle out of this comment considering that no one in my district seems to have any idea what these assessments even are. They give everyone the Woodcock Johnson Achievement. But that is my district--they are absolutely ridiculous about just about anything involving special education. I have the phone right next to me and I'm trying to call the State again.

Anyway, to answer the OP, did you put in a request for an evaluation? I would put in a letter requesting a comprehensive evaluation, and state in the letter what exactly you want evaluated and what your concerns are. Then after they evaluate him you can figure out if he quaifies for an IEP or just needs a 504 plan, and what should be listed as modifications/accommodations.

blackcat, "should" would be the operative word. I guess I'm an incurable optimist!