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    #209906 01/29/15 12:10 PM
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    Hi all,

    I have a DS10 who was tested at 8 for a variety of reasons, including looking for a possible hidden LD. It was fairly clear to all he was gifted even before testing.

    We are toying with the possibility of testing DD8. She is not clearly gifted, but that is ultimately what we'd be looking for. She has been expressing that she is bored at school, not doing the work, etc. Some of it we know for a fact she is more than capable of doing (especially the math).

    The school is willing to do the testing, and able to justify it due to the behavioral issues she's been having (not doing work, not really being easy on her teacher, etc.). I think I"m just looking for that extra push of 'why are you hesitating!' :-)

    The pros include having a better case for differentiated work and understanding her strengths and weaknesses better.

    The cons include a lot of time out of class and the possibility of DD not seeing it as a positive thing (in which case she just won't do it).

    But the biggest potential problem is that it could set up a competitive dynamic between the kids. DD is a big comparer, and gets exceedingly jealous easily. I'm worried she's either going to feel terrible when she finds out her scores are lower than her brother's (very likely that at least some will be, he's pretty high on the verbal ability), or that she will make him feel badly about the areas where his scores are lower (also likely, given that his processing speed is average, and I'm guessing hers would be at least high average -- she's quick). She will not be able to see the bigger picture that I see, or that other kids might: she's quick and funny and socially very astute, so even if she's not "gifted" on a numerical IQ scale, she's very smart and she's got a lot of other things to offer. SIGH.

    Its not like I'd be pointing out what his scores were or hers, but he knows his, and she'll likely want hers...

    Anyone else have to deal with someone like this?

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    Probably a silly question but do both of your kids already know your son's scores and is their any real reason you have to give specifics to your daughter if its just going to lead to unwanted comparisons?

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    There are countless stories on these boards about second children who didn't seem to be at a gifted level, who tested in the upper ranges. So that's one reason to go ahead.

    Beyond that, I am also wondering how much detail either child needs. Oh, I just saw that your son knows his... in which case, you do have a more complicated situation.

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    Quote
    But the biggest potential problem is that it could set up a competitive dynamic between the kids. DD is a big comparer, and gets exceedingly jealous easily. I'm worried she's either going to feel terrible when she finds out her scores are lower than her brother's (very likely that at least some will be, he's pretty high on the verbal ability), or that she will make him feel badly about the areas where his scores are lower (also likely, given that his processing speed is average, and I'm guessing hers would be at least high average -- she's quick). She will not be able to see the bigger picture that I see, or that other kids might: she's quick and funny and socially very astute, so even if she's not "gifted" on a numerical IQ scale, she's very smart and she's got a lot of other things to offer.
    You may wish to share all these lovely things you've said with your daughter (ensuring she knows that she is quick and funny and socially very astute, she's very smart and she's got a lot of other things to offer). You may also wish to begin looking at books and resources such as Gifted Kid's Survival Guide and social thinking (perspective taking) to help assist you in coaching the development of your daughter's self-reflection on her interpersonal skills, as from your post it sounds as though some of her thought patterns are not serving her well.

    Some may say that sibling rivalry is related to boundary issues; working on developing healthy boundaries may help head off potential sibling rivalry.

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    The way I see it you have two independent issues:

    1. Should DD8 be tested?

    2. How do you deal with the fall out of the results given the different personality characteristics of the children?

    The answer to question 1 depends on whether there is a reason to test and whether anything will change for DD if the tests show she is gifted. From your comments you have a reason to test based on the issues she is having, bored at school, not doing the work, not having an easy time with the teachers. If she is having difficulties that are indicators for testing then she needs and deserves testing because it may well change her school experience for the better and avoid underachievement and acting out.

    Once she is tested you have to manage the other potential problems. The concern over jealousy or competitiveness shouldn't dictate whether you have access to information necessary to guide your daughter's education.

    It may be that the problems you anticipate don't arise. With a clearer picture of your daughter's needs, gifted or not, you can make her life at school happier and that may make her feel better.

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    Good points above.

    Some more thoughts:

    1. If jealousy and unhealthy competition are major issues in the sibling dynamic--for whatever reason--obtaining IQ data will not change the dynamic for better or worse, it will just provide a specific catalyst or focal point for it. In the absence of IQ data, some other catalyst or focal point will fill this role.

    2. It may be that what is manifesting as jealousy and competition are actually insecurities that might be partially assuaged by IQ/achievement data that documents objectively your daughter's strengths. It may also be that there is a second exceptionality that undermines her confidence in her own abilities, due to the inconsistency between what she feels she ought to be able to do, and her actual performance.

    EDIT: Oh, and BTW, I was a younger sibling assumed to be not GT by my parents, until the evaluators for my older sibling asked if there were any other children. I was just much better at masking.

    Last edited by aeh; 01/29/15 02:12 PM.

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    You've received great advice above. I fall in the camp of thinking it's a good idea to test - the testing will give you *information*, and no matter what the actual IQ # that comes out of the testing, you'll come away with a good sense of her strengths/weaknesses and that's useful info no matter how smart or not-so-smart a child might happen to be - and it might be *especially* useful for a child who is clearly not happy in school.

    Re the sibling rivalry, fwiw, I have an EG ds and one of my dds has a significantly lower IQ score. The thing is - my dd is *still* subject accelerated and very successful at school. She's an incredibly motivated child and while she might not have the high-level abilities of her brother, and she most likely won't get an SAT score in the same ionisphere he *might* get someday, she is a very happy kid with a lot of her own individual achievements and interests. She's asked me once what her IQ testing numbers were, and the question was specifically in relation to her brother's IQ . I didn't tell her for a very *very* simple reason - if I told her what it was, I think she would take it to mean she couldn't achieve as highly as she is. So instead I simply told her, no, it's not as high as your brothers, but look at all the things you are capable of and have done. I do truly believe she's a really smart girl - not because of her IQ score or in spite of it but because I've spent time talking to her, seeing how she approaches projects at school, seeing how she is passionate about subjects she's interested in, and seeing the high goals she sets for herself.

    It's really easy when following these boards and when parenting an HG/+ child to start to think that a lower IQ is something that isn't a good thing - but really, ultimately at the end of the day, it's who we are inside that counts and there are still a lot lot *lot* of smarts inside kids who aren't profoundly gifted, or even moderately gifted.

    That said, I wouldn't be one bit surprised if you ended up finding your dd is as gifted or possibly even more so than your ds - lots of kids don't scream "gifted" at the top of their lungs for the world to hear, especially if they are 2e. For that reason alone, combined with the fact that she is complaining about school, I'd test.

    Best wishes,

    polarbear

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    It depends a bit how high the brothers score it. Ds5 is a SD lower than ds7 according to the test but he is still well above the 99th percentile so it isn't an issue. I wouldn't tell them the scores just roughly where they are on the curve. I well tell you'd daughter they need to test to work out a better class fit for next year. (Assuming US or at least northern hemisphere.

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    Great advice above. If you can avoid telling scores, I would test. My 2 DYS DC do not know their scores (they were eerily similar, but with different strengths and relative weaknesses). They both know that they did very, very well. DD knows that she did well enough to get into the G&T program at school. Right now, I do not think they need to know more than that (one WAS higher, but it is literally statistically insignificant, so NO POINT in starting THAT rivalry here! wink ).


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    I just have to add that I am so happy to see that there are parents who are this sensitive to how their children will receive their individual IQ scores, and how the sibling dynamics will be affected. IRL, I have, most unfortunately, seen more than one family that overtly pits one child against another, or limits/inflates expectations of one child or another, based purely on IQ numbers.

    That you care about this will go a long way toward minimizing the kind of negative dynamic about which you are concerned.

    Last edited by aeh; 01/29/15 08:34 PM.

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