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    Quote
    In addition, she is a super-verbal kiddo, with a quick mind (you REALLY have to try not to get sucked into an argument with her, because her noncompliance can start so innocently). I realized long ago that I cannot expect what I would consider "perfect" behavior from her and that I need to pick my battles, or else I'll constantly be on her case...it's hard to explain to someone who doesn't have a kid like this. Traditional discipline was never terribly effective with her - you've never seen a kid have more fun by herself on time-out (actually, being so self-entertaining DOES have an upside crazy). Taking toys or privileges away has almost no effect. Suffice it to say, she has kept me on my toes up until now!

    When did my kid move to your house? Odd.

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    Originally Posted by master of none
    This seems to be a case of knowing your child and parenting in a way that works best. I'm with Bostonian on this one, and if you know me on this board, I'm one who tends to suggest looking into causes and talking to the child. For disrespectful behavior, not so much. If the child has an issue, they need to be respectful in talking about it. Communicating via eye roll or haughty voice is unacceptable. But that's MY kid. You don't roll your eyes at grandma (or anyone). Even if her suggestion is way off base, you smile and say "thank you I'll think about it". Y'all have different kids, and I totally agree with keeping communication open. So, we agree on that.

    I am, too.


    And for the record, it sounds as though several of you are living with Mini-DD. I'm actually laughing out loud at Blackcat-- because her DH's engagement sounds a lot like my DH's struggles with our DD.

    She is most of the time quite a delightful young lady now that she is 15. What she was frequently like (to us, anyway) at ages 7 through 12 doesn't really bear repeating.

    {shudder}


    I'm kind when I tell her that things are not "acceptable" methods of communicating, or of expressing her feelings-- but firm about where boundaries are. NO, you will not use that clipped tone of voice with ME. Oh-no-you-don't.




    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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    Originally Posted by HowlerKarma
    [
    I'm kind when I tell her that things are not "acceptable" methods of communicating, or of expressing her feelings-- but firm about where boundaries are. NO, you will not use that clipped tone of voice with ME. Oh-no-you-don't.

    And when she did it again, HK, what did you actually DO? I have struggled forever with two kids who are pretty much indifferent to any consequence I have ever dreamed up.

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    We have a moody little 8 year old teenage boy. The tone is sometimes unbelievable. DH sometimes gets into shouting matches as if he actually were thirteen or above and I have to calm them both down. In his case, we know it's the tension leaking out from school where he is among the well behaved group suffering from very ill behaved classmates but I want to refuse it let these kids, by proxy, set our whole family on edge. It's not easy because all "consequences" make the tension worse. Really, he needs time in, calm adult attention, no siblings, the right kind of stimulation AND the food he just cannot concentrate on and is rude abot, but sometimes we simply cannot provide that.

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    Originally Posted by ultramarina
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    In addition, she is a super-verbal kiddo, with a quick mind (you REALLY have to try not to get sucked into an argument with her, because her noncompliance can start so innocently). I realized long ago that I cannot expect what I would consider "perfect" behavior from her and that I need to pick my battles, or else I'll constantly be on her case...it's hard to explain to someone who doesn't have a kid like this. Traditional discipline was never terribly effective with her - you've never seen a kid have more fun by herself on time-out (actually, being so self-entertaining DOES have an upside crazy). Taking toys or privileges away has almost no effect. Suffice it to say, she has kept me on my toes up until now!

    When did my kid move to your house? Odd.


    laugh

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    Originally Posted by Tigerle
    DH sometimes gets into shouting matches as if he actually were thirteen or above and I have to calm them both down.

    About that... I heard a psychologist say once that shouting is a fear response due to a feeling of losing control. Anytime I find myself ready to shout at my DD, I try to think about that. What do I have to fear? I'm the one with all the power in the relationship, unless I do something stupid and give it to her (like, say, making it easy for her to manipulate me into anger).

    I also think about the time when she was a month old and colicky, nothing would settle her down, it was two in the morning, and I had to be able to think coherently at work. After having tried everything for about an hour, with no success, my patience ended, and I shouted, "WHAT?!", and her screaming escalated. Lesson learned.

    DD9 is mostly compliant and a pleaser, though naturally she saves her worst behavior for home. DW and I are guilty of having made DD the center of our universe, so that can cause ego issues. Every once in a while I have to remind her that I'm her parent.

    Just this last week, she decided to be a butt about brushing her teeth and getting ready for bed. One day she said she wasn't going to do it, and I just shrugged, and said that's fine, I'm not going to read her a story. She did it again the next night, and I said we're not going to have this conversation, brushing is not optional. The third night, I just told her I didn't want to play this game every single night, it's not fun. No issues since. In all three cases, the argument was over in two sentences in a normal tone.

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    Yes-- like Dude and MoN, it's a matter of: a) picking battles that have to be won, and b) knowing that I'm doing the adult thing in teaching her that her behaviors have pretty predictable consequences.

    So if she is nasty or snotty-- real world consequence dictates that she NOT get whatever it is she is after. Period. Doesn't matter how inconvenient or unpleasant it is to me.

    And by the way, I strongly discourage ANY indication that the parental unit finds denying the child what s/he is seeking as anything of the kind-- more like "routine" or "what is easier for me anyway, makes no difference." Even better if you can shrug and maintain a completely neutral facial expression.

    There is no "reward" for civil and non-manipulative behavior. That's a basic expectation, in our opinion as parents and as people. Building better relationships with others is the reward.






    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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    For example, yes, I have held my child down to medicate her against her will. Yes, I have.

    She refused several nights running, and she was warned. She didn't cross that line again. She has autonomy over it as a result of demonstrating her compliance with what is necessary and prudent.

    I only had to brush her teeth FOR her a couple of times when she was about seven, and she got the picture. Non-negotiable. She wanted to NOT do it, and make no mistake-- this was a power struggle.

    The thing is, they are still children, and we are still supplying wants in addition to basic needs. This isn't rocket science at that point-- we always have leverage as a result of that power imbalance. I mean-- how is a 7yo going to get to a preferred activity if we refuse to permit them to go as a result of being treated like scullery maids?



    I don't fear power struggles with my daughter-- I expect them. She is who she is. I am still the parent, and she needs to understand that entering a power struggle with someone who has authority over you is generally a losing proposition. So I've taught her that-- as lovingly as I possibly can. Better me than her first boss or her research advisor, right?

    She has learned to rein in her mouth, keep her feelings to herself when appropriate, and to apologize well. Those are pretty essential life skills, and they mark her as a teen that has a maturity about her that adults really appreciate. She reaps the rewards pretty frequently with opportunities that others aren't given, and she knows that there is a connection to her circumspect and non-egocentric behavior, which is unusual among her agemates.

    For a PG kid, that is a HUGE payoff.



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    I don't know, though--all due respect, but I read everyone's suggestions and think "But we do that." Oh, and we do. Over and over. Sometimes it does work. Other times, I feel like we're just pushing the ball along to another spot. So, we may get through the toothbrushing thing with that type of exchange, but now she's mad because she "lost." The feeling is still there and will move forward to the next event when we make a request. And at that time, there may not be good leverage, or we need to get out of the house, or there is additional complexity that makes "so we simply don't...and she simply must..." not feasible (note: many times it is, but not always). So I don't always feel like these techniques are really working at all. I get the feeling a lot like we are papering something over, something deeper that is causing these battles to recur and recur. So yes, I generally know how to get compliance, because I have figured out ways. But what is the cost? And why is the lasting change largely absent?

    And I have to say, I have another child who is more typical in personality and persistence and we are freaking ninjas at parenting that one (except when it comes to sibling issues, because put her in there and chaos can happen) because typical parenting crap, hell, that's easy.

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    Originally Posted by ultramarina
    I don't know, though--all due respect, but I read everyone's suggestions and think "But we do that." Oh, and we do. Over and over. Sometimes it does work. Other times, I feel like we're just pushing the ball along to another spot. So, we may get through the toothbrushing thing with that type of exchange, but now she's mad because she "lost."

    I do understand where you are coming from. Completely. DD is NOT our only child, or our only very bright child, for that matter (I have 2 DYS). But DD has ALWAYS had an intensity about her that just makes her DIFFERENT. She is absolutely wired differently. Also, DH and I are NOT afraid to discipline her - in reality, DD has had more "discipline" than DS ever needed. If DS was my only, I would truly believe that DH and I were parenting geniuses, because he is just so much easier to parent (we love the both the same, of course!). DD is the child that none of the parenting manuals really work on - we had to toss most of the aside long ago and figure things out on our own.

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