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    #207862 12/17/14 04:00 AM
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    Dubsyd Offline OP
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    I have a relative who is a 6 year old boy who I will call B6. He is very bright, gifted I would imagine, although he has never been tested. I won't go into too much detail as it is not my child, but something happened the other day that has me quite concerned. The boy has a lot of challenging behaviours, but this really upset me.

    I was at a family event a couple of days ago, and I walked into the kitchen. My husband and daughter were sitting up at the kitchen counter looking at a toy. B6 was on the floor petting the cat, but he kept looking up at my husband to see if he was looking at him. He started stroking down the cats nose and around its eyes then looked up at my husband again. I walked over to my daughter and my husband left the room. I was watching B6 out of the corner of my eye. He was stroking the cat, then paused his hand and dug his fingers into the side of the cat for a second then continued petting her. This cat is very placid and used to small children, so it takes a lot to bother her. A minute later, B6 caught me looking at him, he smiled up and said, "isn't she so cute" I agreed. I pretended not to be paying attention again and he pinched a bit of the cats fur and pulled it. The cat moved aside and I told him he can not pull the cats fur. He got up and left the room.

    When I discussed this with my husband later, he said he had noticed B6 watching him and found it disconcerting too. He didn't hurt the cat badly, but there was something in the way he was watching to make sure he was not being observed and the way he was petting the cat as if he was exploring it rather than petting it.

    Has anyone had any experience with anything like this?


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    My children would never, ever do this, but I know another child who behaves like this with animals. This child is not the most kind or compassionate of children in some ways, but I do not think he is mentally ill or has a disorder. That child has never seriously hurt an animal that I know of, but will "explore" with bothering them in this way. This is also a child who is somewhat inclined toward teasing other children, but I would not classify him as an actual bully.

    I agree...it's very disturbing to see, but possibly somewhat age appropriate for some children??? I don't know.

    The child I know has family pets, so it's not a matter of no exposure.

    ETA: And I have seen the exact same behavior with the kid I know looking at an adult to see if he is being watched, and almost checking for a response. Very similar. Could the child be looking for boundaries? Needs to know more about what is appropriate or not? It's something I've wondered. I know the child's parents in my case are very frustrated with all this behavior (child is also generally "too much" with the family animals--doesn't watch their cues and is too much in their space). Yet he will also profess to love and adore animals...

    Last edited by ultramarina; 12/17/14 06:13 AM.
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    Maybe he was trying to get a reaction from the cat rather than hurt the cat, but still, I don't really think that's normal from a 6 year old. He clearly knew it was wrong, and that's why he was looking to see if people were watching. My kids have both had cats at age 6 (and since birth I guess) and their behavior has always been more inconsiderate than purposefully hurtful. Like picking a cat up and running with it across the house. The cats were terrified of what "could" happen, esp. with DS who is clumsy. His "petting" could be more like smacking. I would keep a close eye on the kid...I would find it disturbing as well.

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    It's more appropriate for a much younger child. My DS (at age three) would sometimes smack our family dog on the nose when thought no one was looking. I think he wanted to see how the animal would react.

    He was recently diagnosed with a receptive/expressive language impairment (social skills being the dominant issue). Based on this diagnosis, I think, at age three, he did not realize that he was aggravating the animal, and just as worrying, did not realize that an upset animal had the potential to retaliate.

    Now, at eight, he is incredibly gentle and kind with animals-- he's also wonderful with young children. I think his ability to "read" things is way behind, and as a preschooler, he needed to understand some things explicitly that most of us just "get." At around 5.5, I really saw empathy/remorse click in and when it comes to those weaker (animals, young children) he is extremely careful and rule bound (i.e. probably much more careful than most same age peers),

    My instinct is that your relative's son may need an evaluation- at six, I might begin to work worry about more oppositional behaviors/empathy, but it's still kind of early.

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    The issue of empathy depends on your internal reaction to the individual child's reaction to what he did to the cat.

    This is based on my own personal cat-experimentation phase. Granted, since the person doing this was me, it was a very unusual experiment. I did not have a very pleasant internal reaction to this experiment, so I am fairly certain that I have empathy.

    It may have to do with learning things that other people simply "get".

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    Dubsyd Offline OP
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    He is nearly 7, so he is definitely old enough to understand it's wrong to hurt animals.

    I don't live nearby, so I don't see b6 very often. Other family members have made comments about being worried about him with animals, but I thought they were probably being overly dramatic. Things tend to get broken when he is around. And I know family members get frustrated.

    There was another incident that same day, but I didn't witness it, so I am not really sure what happened. B6 was alone with his cousin (also 6) upstairs, and then B6 came down the stairs, and the cousin's dad saw him and thought he looked suspicious and asked what he was doing. B6 said he wasn't doing anything, but then the dad heard his son crying upstairs. The cousin was very shaken up and said B6 had tackled him and was blocking him from leaving the room. At the time I thought it was just boys being boys, but the cat incident makes me wonder.


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    I would not call it boys being boys with that incident you mentioned between the cousins. Especially at his age. Even DS at 4 - if we saw that behavior with him and his friends, we would be concerned and all his male friends are 5 years old but none of his friends would intentionally do that to another of their friends. That sounds like bullying to me, when a child is trying to dominate another child like that (and if the other boy's dad noticed that B6 was acting oddly, chances are that B6 knows that was wrong too).

    However, whether to bring it up to the parents or not really depends on your relationship to those other parents and how receptive they would be. I know if it came from my best friend or others I respect, I would listen and I also know if I had concerns about something I saw with their kids, they would take what I said seriously, but I also have seen parents where it was clear that the other parents had no interest in thinking something is wrong with their perfect little angel and have lots of excuses for any negative behavior.

    If the other parents are one of those difficult ones, you may also need to start considering protecting your own family/home and never allowing this child around your children or animals, or things you treasure - until you can see clear indications that the disturbing behaviors you see are no longer there.

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    I also have seen parents where it was clear that the other parents had no interest in thinking something is wrong with their perfect little angel and have lots of excuses for any negative behavior.

    If the other parents are one of those difficult ones, you may also need to start considering protecting your own family/home and never allowing this child around your children or animals, or things you treasure - until you can see clear indications that the disturbing behaviors you see are no longer there.
    Agreed.

    Childhood cruelty to animals may be an early warning for later trouble. This article mentions possible motivations including "a vehicle for emotional abuse" (bullying/intimidation), and a desire to "alleviate boredom or achieve a sense of control."

    Watching adults furtively adds a manipulative aspect to this child's behavior, making the situation more chilling: He seems to be daring anyone to mention what he is doing, thereby casting all who are present as culpable, unwitting accomplices in their silence.

    In your own home, proactively stating rules which are clear-cut and objective ("Do not touch, keep your hands to yourself") may be more effective than subjective rules ("Pet the cat nicely, don't be harsh") when working with a manipulative person.

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    I would definitely be concerned.

    From this distance, it is not possible to determine whether this is a child with delays in social comprehension, who is relating to animals like a much younger child, and getting into problematic peer social situations because he lacks the social language and problem-solving skills to manage them more appropriately, or if this is a case of budding psychopathy.

    Either way, now would be the time to evaluate and remediate, before the developmental window for empathy closes in the next few years. Unfortunately, inconsistent or loose behavioral expectations and consequences in the home tend to breed antisocial behavior patterns. I would agree that speaking to his parents depends largely on your relationship with them, but that maintaining consistent environments where you can control them will help to keep you and yours safer, and also provide him with some limited opportunities to learn prosocial skills and develop empathy.


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    Watching adults furtively adds a manipulative aspect to this child's behavior, making the situation more chilling: He seems to be daring anyone to mention what he is doing, thereby casting all who are present as culpable, unwitting accomplices in their silence.

    Obviously, I was not there for this incident, but when I have seen this same thing with the child I know, it didn't feel quite this way. More like...that intentionally "naughty" look you get from a child who is pushing boundaries.

    That said, this would concern me:
    Quote
    Other family members have made comments about being worried about him with animals

    I am not as sure about the incident with the cousin. Without a witness, I would not want to indict. I have heard all kinds of tales about who did what to whom when no adult was in the room in my experiences with children.

    I would add one thing. I could be wrong, but I have the idea that mild cruelty to living things (we are not talking about stabbing or killing the cat here) used to be more common and tolerated, especially among boys. Think of pulling the wings off flies, incinerating ants with a magnifying glass (I think my DH did this), etc. To me this suggests a mild tendency to do this among some children. I am not saying it is okay, and I am aware that it is a sign of possible problems. Still. I would probably have a different perspective on this if it weren't for the other child in my life, whom I know quite well and who again, does not make me think "future sociopath" as much as "not the most compassionate child I know, but not in need of treatment."

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