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    Joined: Aug 2011
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    Good job MichelleC - so much progress since your last post! Way to rock it out mom!

    I have to say that I do see red flags with the approach of staying put, doing outside supports and hoping for the best. You mention writing issues and math issues as well as the dyslexia. Also that the dyslexia tutor mentioned the possibility of something other than dyslexia going on. This tells me there is more to your DD's story and you have not teased it all out yet, similar to when my DD was first identified. I doubt your situation will be as extreme as ours since my DD collapsed in kindergarten and yours was able to make it until 3rd grade before being identified. Still my gut tells me you may find more with her than you know about now.

    I think your DH being "polyanna-ish" is natural. I still have people who insist "there's nothing wrong with DD" despite all the evaluations, interventions and identifications. By definition 2E kids are gifted - they tend to dazzle people with their brilliance at a young age. It's so hard for some people to get the concept of them being LD. I battled my pediatrician for 3 1/2 years to get a referral to an OT and battled DD's first school for in school evaluations all through K because she was just So. Darn. Smart.

    A school that has "never dealt with dyslexia"? I simply cannot imagine your DD getting what she needs here. Even if you have a great program for her outside of school she will still need accommodations and modifications in school. If this was your only option I could see pouring all your energy and resources into outside supports. But with other (better) options available I would not go this route.

    I would take a close look at what the English public will offer and then compare it apples to apples with the LD schools. I have found these specialty schools to be very helpful. You could probably sit down with them and the outline from the English public and they could explain the differences with their own program.

    I would not worry about having to switch schools twice if that's what your DD needs. One thing you hear over and over on these boards is that all school situations are temporary. We need to adjust as our kids' needs adjust. I think the decision will really come down to trying the English public or jumping straight to the LD school. I just really don't think your do-it-yourself approach is going to work. Hopefully your DH will come to understand that. And yes I believe you are right to be concerned about the effect of unrealistic demands. My DD developed an anxiety disorder which is now finally under control in a more supportive environment that understands her needs. Just having an IEP may not be enough - DD's second grade teacher in the public just could not wrap her head around DD's needs and was totally unable to implement her IEP. So you would hopefully get more support and more services at the English public but will still have to advocate and put out fires.

    Hang in there - you are doing a great job!

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    Originally Posted by gabalyn
    We chose to do two intensive (and expensive) weeks at LMB. I felt that my son would be more motivated and compliant for the intensive, short-term remediation, and this is LMB's model.

    When he comes across a word he doesn't know, I am THRILLED to hear him SOUND IT OUT!

    I hope some of this is helpful!

    You can't imagine how helpful! Well, actually, you probably can, from the sounds of it. It's a huge help to be able to learn from those who have BTDT. I too have been glued to the Eides (for DS10, too - who can read like a charm, but not write...). It took a lot of digging, mostly on this board, before I saw dyslexia descriptions that looked anything like my DD - yet now it seems obvious. And thank you for the reminder that no matter how ornery they are now, teenagers are a whole other world - there's been several recent threads discussing the importance of normalizing accommodations as young as possible.

    I am intrigued by the LMB intensive remediation model, which I've seen mentioned several times on the forum. I haven't seen anything remotely like it in Canada. I don't seem to be able to quite wrap my brain around the idea. Everything I see talks about daily doses over the long haul. Even the reading specialist I spoke with seemed to think we were already going way too fast through our at home program. I'd love to hear more about how an intensive program works, and the pros and cons as compared to the more typical model. Can they actually absorb that much change, that fast? Or is it more of a kick-start to a longer-term approach? I don't know that it's an option we can access, but the possibility of starting with a big jump is certainly appealing - it seems like it could give the child enormous confidence in the process and herself, both. And you and others have experienced good results.

    I am totally with you on that thrill! It's wonderful that your DS has been able to achieve so much. In our tiny way, I am already seeing DD forced to look, *really look*, at the words and sentences in her reading program, and sound out the letters that are *actually there*, and read the words that are actually there. It's extraordinary that I really can, for the first time, see her start to try and decode what's there, not guess what it probably ought to be.

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    Michelle, there's some information on the What Works Clearing House for evidence for the long-term efficacy of LMB. It's not super well studied, but it does seem to have decent evidence behind it.

    I looked into it because my DD went through all of OG at age 10, progressing from kindergarten level phonemic awareness to 7th grade spelling skills in a span of 4 months. Her intervention was 40 minutes per day, 5 days a week. At that time, I couldn't find any evidence for such a short OG intervention and if the intervention sticks. All evidence was for 2 year programs. DD simply went through the two year program at lightening speed. Hence, I looked at LMB as an analogous model to what we'd experienced.

    She's maintained her gains for 2+ years, and continued to progress in her spelling skills.

    When I expressed concern about her maintaining these gains without continued review and support, the school's OG specialist sent me the following:

    "This information is from "Multisensory Teaching of Basic Language Skills" 3rd edition by Judith R. Birsh. It states, "Several studies on the effect of intensive, systematic, structured language instruction on children with reading disabilities have shown that functional brain patterns may become more normalized as a consequence of instruction (Berninger et. al., 2003; Blachman et. al., 2003, Meyler, Keller Cherkassky, Garbieli, &Just, 2008; Shaywitz, 2003; Simos et. al., 2002).

    "Also, functional connectivity differences in children with dyslexia in comparison with controls were eliminated after a 3-week treatment program consisting of explicit instruction in the alphabetic principle and linguistic awareness training (Richards & Berninger, 2008).
    "

    Last edited by geofizz; 11/24/14 10:09 AM.
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    Originally Posted by Pemberley
    Good job MichelleC - so much progress since your last post! Way to rock it out mom!

    I have to say that I do see red flags with the approach of staying put, doing outside supports and hoping for the best.

    Thanks Pemberly, for both the cheer and the cautions. I'm trying to walk that tightrope between being realistic, and not inventing problems that haven't happened yet. I'm still swinging wildly from side to side, but you are a big help in trying to find the balance points. I feel like I am getting closer. And that I am starting to have more of the information I need to make decent decisions.

    I still find it amazing that if 10% or 20% of kids have LDs - with dyslexia perhaps in 10% of all the kids out there - that there is so little real evidence about interventions of any kind, once you move beyond the OG-type reading remediation.

    You also remind me that DD's teacher scored her very high on anxiety last year, and we need to keep that up front in our minds. (fortunately, no one is trying to take scores on me these days... crazy )


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    Actually, there is a ton of evidence about reading interventions, and it all adds up to OG and LMB for decoding, and lots of practice for fluency.

    More than 10-20% of kids struggle with reading. It's more like 30%. But only 10-20% are considered LD. Regardless of diagnosis, nearly all of them respond to structured, systematic, multi-sensory, phonemic awareness-based instruction.

    If you want readings on reading, a fellow professional in the field compiled an excellent, but very lengthy, collection of journal articles on the state of the field, which I have found highly informative, that I would be happy to provide a list of references for, on request. (I can't send you the articles, for copyright reasons.)


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    Originally Posted by geofizz
    At that time, I couldn't find any evidence for such a short OG intervention and if the intervention sticks. All evidence was for 2 year programs. DD simply went through the two year program at lightening speed. Hence, I looked at LMB as an analogous model to what we'd experienced.

    She's maintained her gains for 2+ years, and continued to progress in her spelling skills.

    Thanks Geofizz - it's so nice to see some real evidence! And I hadn't seen any studies on "sticking", so this is really useful. And reassuring.

    I've been through the clearinghouse a few times looking to see if there's anything under "writing" for which there is even the teeniest smidge of evidence. Haven't found one yet, alas... Any luck yourself?

    There does seem to be universal agreement that OG-type remediation works - and that it's the only thing that works for dyslexia. While LMB, Barton, Wilson et al all have their differences, I haven't seen anything that suggests any one is inherently superior. From what I can see, as long as it's OG-based it has the same potential for success? You look like you've found some better research, so I'd love to know what else you've found.

    The program we're using is also an OG-based, and I think is reasonable in terms of content/ approach. The real issue is that when we are doing it ourselves, we can only follow the script, not adapt as needed. We have no expertise to pick up on red flags, divert where necessary, and add, substitute or speed up as warranted. Or, as Pemberly noted, catch other issues. So that's definitely where you want the professionals to come in. (I'm noticing as I surf that Barton seems to be the preferred approach around here. Our schools use yet another OG variation created by our regional children's hospital).

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    Originally Posted by aeh
    Actually, there is a ton of evidence about reading interventions, and it all adds up to OG and LMB for decoding, and lots of practice for fluency.

    Thanks aeh - and please pardon my lack of clarity. What I was trying to say was that I found tons of agreement, as you say, around the one intervention (OG/ LMB for reading), but after that... everything gets vague. Everyone agrees that the reading intervention is essential step 1, but insufficient. But what's the next step? What other interventions (not accommodations) are likely to be needed, to access the full curriculum? Almost everything I find talks about how much we need research into the other areas that need interventions - but has little to say about what are the other areas and what we know so far about interventions.

    You gave me a great answer a while back on next steps for reading development - and the only concrete information I have yet seen (what would we do without you?).

    I'll re-quote you for others following, because it's great info:
    Originally Posted by aeh
    "OG is excellent for decoding, but there are other programs that help take a student to the next level in fluency, once they've completed OG, such as Read Naturally. Comprehension is yet another level, usually helped most by learning active reading strategies--so more cognitive and executive functioning strategies than anything else. Comprehension also naturally improves as decoding becomes automatic, because this frees up cognitive and EF functions for comprehending, rather than decoding. Some active reading strategies include KWL (know-want to know-learned) and SQ3R (Survey-Question-Read-Retell-Review)."

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    It's not too late for intervention! We started DS with Wilson remediation just before he turned 9 and so thankful we did!! He ended 2nd grade without the ability to decode a four letter word but if you stopped reading Harry Potter mid-chapter his intensity to continue would allow him to struggle through a couple pages using his great problem solving ability to figure out what was happening...it was just exhausting. He flew through the Wilson curriculum and is now finishing book 5 and reading above grade level in 4th. His fluency scores are low, he's not very fast reading aloud, but his comprehension is excellent which is what matters. His grades have improved dramatically and his anxiety and behavior issues have subsided. He even signed up for Reading Olympics this year, participating mostly via Audible/CD. Sadly, to this day he doesn't have an IEP or accommodations (only a GIEP for strengths). We have found the school staff to be poorly informed and actually spiteful and disapproving of our outside intervention. Embrace the support you get and supplement with experts, it's well worth the cost! Good luck!!


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    Thanks for clarifying. I assume you've been surfing the What Works Clearinghouse? There are two interventions with limited, but positive, evidence that I've seen for writing: Read Naturally (oddly, the study reported finds effects for writing, but not reading fluency), and Spelling Mastery. They're both in the students with disabilities section.


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    Thanks Kris for the good news story - it's so helpful to have positive models of fluency going up and anxiety going down. Reading Olympics - wow! That's just marvellous. What a great indicator of the kind of confidence your DS has been able to build. I'm so sorry you've obviously had such a fight on your hands working with your school, though, but it sounds like you've found a really good way forward. Anything you think we should know, do pass on. Many thanks!

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