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    Joined: Aug 2011
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    My 2E DD9, 4th grade, is in out of district placement at a spec Ed school because of severe LD issues. Last year her class consisted of 3 girls and 4 boys ranging from 2nd to 6th grade with 2 spec Ed teachers. It was the first time there were so many girls in the elementary area of the school. They became a very close knit group and there were a lot of comments about the positive affect having the girls seemed to have on the boys' behavior, several of whom are very ADHD.

    This year the class started as 5 boys, 2 girls ranging from 1st-6th grade with the same 2 teachers and 3 of the same boys as last year and 2 new 1st grade boys. This week the other girl transferred back to her home school district leaving DD as the only girl. The boys' behavior has been escalating as they seem to be feeding off each others behavior. They are also older, 9-11 years old instead of 8-10 like last year, if that makes a difference. Also at least one 1st grader follows the lead of the older boys.

    DD is feeling pretty overwhelmed. Just a couple of days before the other girl left the boys went off on DD because she didn't understand the rules of the basketball game they were playing during recess. Ever since then she has been very uncomfortable and even asked me to change the plans for her birthday party because she doesn't feel comfortable having these boys there. Prior to the recess incident she had insisted that any party had to include EVERYONE from school and rejected any location that couldn't accommodate her whole class and friends from school as well as their siblings. She spends much of her day outside the classroom (OT, SLP, enrichment, etc) so I think lunch and recess are going to be the hardest part.

    Any BTDT advice from other parents whose girls have found themselves in a class with all boys? Or from parents of boys about how she may better cope with their behaviors? DD is very girly but also likes insects and frogs and has always had male friends. She is dyspraxic, though, so hanging with a group of sports enthusiasts is really tough.

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    Pemberly I really want to have something hopeful and positive to say, and I don't really, so I have held back waiting for someone wiser than I to find it.... I see you've had no takers.

    I have three daughters and this would be a huge concern to me. I'm on my ipad and can't type easily, but I am really not sure how I'd handle the fact that she's now effectively in an all boys school!

    My eldest was one of 5 girls in a class of 20ish and this caused her enough social problems (being a bright and odd child) that we ended up having to move her... Middle daughter is currently the only girl in her grade in a split class (all girls are in the next grade and she;s skipped so all the girls are fully 2 years older than her). Also there are 8 girls out of 28. Again this is causing issues... Such that she doing a trial day at a girls school next week! I really can't imagine the scenario you are in!

    I really like the idea of co-ed education, particularly in primary school, but the unbalanced classes we've been struggling with have been enough to drive us to looking at all girls schools, let alone being the only girl!

    It's great that the primary problems are at lunch and recess, that it's not impacting her learning. But none the less this seems really unfortunate for social development. I realise that changing schools is difficult to impossible, but wow. I don't even know what to suggest. Joining an all girls after school activity in order to foster contact and friendships is hardly going balance this kind of learning environment and playground imbalance is it?

    I can easily imagine my girls may grow up to choose very male dominated careers, the older two perhaps more than the youngest, but that is a different situation to being in what amounts to an all boys school as a yr4.

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    I've had the opposite problem--I had one son who was one of three boys in first grade and then my other son was one of two boys in sixth grade. You would have thought I would have learned after the first one. I can't imagine how difficult it would have been to have been the only boy (or girl, in your case).

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    Originally Posted by Pemberley
    They are also older, 9-11 years old instead of 8-10 like last year, if that makes a difference. Also at least one 1st grader follows the lead of the older boys.

    It would appear to. Behavior issues among kids are at their absolute worst for grades 6-8, says every teacher I've ever had, and my DD9 is confirming this with her tales of the 6th graders in her mixed-grade GT classes.

    So basically, the alpha males in your DD's classroom are not only in the worst age group, they're also gifted (so, intensity), and ADHD? Yikes.

    I don't have any BTDT experience, as my DD's school experience is a fairly even gender mix, but in your place, here's how I would address it:

    - I would encourage my DD to seek common interests with the boys, and engage them in those.

    - I would discuss with my DD how children of different genders address conflict. Girls are apt to be quiet and indirect, where boys are loud and direct. At its worst, it leads to mean-girl behavior on one side (shunning, back-handed compliments, "accidents," etc) and obvious intimidation and/or abuse on the other (verbal and/or physical). Neither approach is really better or worse than the other, they're just different (although it's worth noting here that I've known a number of females who shun female company because they prefer the directness of males).

    - Next, I would ask her to quietly observe the boys when they're interacting with each other. Maybe explain it like she's Jane Goodall observing chimp behavior, if that helps. The basketball game would make an ideal natural habitat for observation. Notice how they talk to each other. They goad. They tease. They taunt. They yell. They insult. Sometimes it leads to a confrontation, but more often than not, the harsh words don't match with the observed reactions. Sometimes the target is laughing. Other times, it has no visible effect. Sometimes two boys will seem to be on the verge of fighting, and ten minutes later, it's like the event never happened.

    The conclusion to be drawn from these observations is this: the boys did not expect your DD to be so hurt by their words, because they do this with each other all the time, and they don't react the same way. They honestly do not understand your DD's reaction, because it does not match their frame of reference. It's alien to them.

    This might help your DD understand where they're coming from, and take some of it less personally.

    - But she's still going to be upset from time to time, and it's important that the boys gain some understanding of your DD, too. So...

    ... ummm, I'm not encouraging emotional blackmail here or anything, but... uhhh... it IS well established that most boys tend to pay significant attention to it when a girl is... crying. So, maybe if she's really upset, she doesn't go find a quiet corner and hide her feelings?

    - An email to the teacher explaining your DD's plight might be in order, as well. It might be quite effective if your DD's teacher could give a quick lecture on gentlemanly behavior. Also, anytime your DD is made upset by the boys, she should be reporting it to the teacher.

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    I like Dude's advice. Definitely worth trying to see if your daughter can reframe her perspective of the classroom.

    Unfortunately, my dd8, has been in similarly unbalanced classrooms since 1st grade. In a class of 18, she was one of only 3 girls in first and second grade. Now in 3rd, there are 7 girls and 20 boys, so better, but still a boys dynamic.

    For some reason, my dd often gets grouped with all-boy groups. Her reading group left her in tears because the boys never listened, never let her talk, were bossy and took control. She doesn't want to talk over them, so she just gave up. When she finally told me about it, I emailed the teacher, but the book was finished by then. The teacher promised she would make sure the girls have a friend in groups from now on.

    But the teacher also tries to put rowdy boys next to my dd to calm them down. This, also, makes my dd frustrated and upset. After a discussion with the teacher, my dd is now next to a quiet boy, so that's an improvement.

    I think I would try Dude's suggestions, but honestly, my daughter doesn't like playing with boys and even though she's madly in love with her brothers, she doesn't like boys her own age. She thinks they're literally crazy. So I'm quite sure I would have to remove her from an all-boy classroom.

    PS-- I'm not boy-bashing! I have two wonderful boys, but I know boy energy is often different than girl energy. I'm surprised my tom boyish girl doesn't gravitate toward boys, but she doesn't.

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    DD has often been in overwhelmingly male educational settings-- mostly this was due to her interests in STEM areas which are male-dominated even at younger ages, but now she's seeing it again in college.


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    Maybe explain it like she's Jane Goodall observing chimp behavior, if that helps.

    This is a GREAT technique to foster in any child who isn't NT, imo.

    DD has learned to have a different "persona" for social interactions (and professional ones) when she is in those male groups.

    I consider this an asset-- it's forcing her to develop a very broad set of emotional and social skills and to hone a communication skill set for the extremes that she'll almost certainly be faced with in her life.

    Being able to communicate with either Spock or with Emma Woodhouse is a pretty significant thing. Soft skills, sure-- but pretty important ones.

    I guess in this situation, my temptation would be to let school be whatever it is going to be, and if my DD still seemed to be in need of "girly" time-- sign up for an EC that provides it. Like ballet. Or art.


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    I spend a lot of time coaching young women to function in nearly all male environments.

    I really like everything from Dude except the bit on having her change her own emotional response to situations. It's not a wise path to teach girls that their emotional instincts are wrong. I like the approach of teaching her to understand the boy's behavior and perspective, though. I like it a lot. This is similar in approach to what I coach my students to do.

    The thing I would add to the approach would be to simply validate what she's feeling. It sounds like she's also feeling a need to remain loyal to a large number of friends and classmates, even as their educational setting continues to be in flux.

    All that being said, this is a special education school. What does the school say? What are they doing to support your DD socially and emotionally? Surely these extremes in student population will be a constant part of the school's fabric, particularly considering the small numbers.

    In parallel to all this, it is really useful to provide an all-female environment for girls in situations like this. Girl Scouts can be hit or miss, but a lot of the focus in older grades begins to be one of leadership. Learning to lead (=express herself effectively) in that safe atmosphere most certainly transfers to situations like these.

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    Originally Posted by geofizz
    I really like everything from Dude except the bit on having her change her own emotional response to situations. It's not a wise path to teach girls that their emotional instincts are wrong.

    A clarification is in order, because this is a misunderstanding of my message. I did not intend to communicate any such idea, and it runs contrary to my later statements where I acknowledge that the girl will still likely be upset by the boys' behavior, and that educating the boys is also necessary.

    The idea is simply to understand that the hurt they are causing her may not be intentional, and that understanding may help her cope with it better. Her emotions are still valid, but maybe understanding reduces the intensity of that emotional response, or helps her calm herself after her initial response.

    Any parent who has heard, "I HATE YOU!" can relate... we may understand that this is a child, and there are many reasons why the kid might say it which have nothing to do with us, but it still stings to hear.

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    Thanks for the clarification, Dude! It was this statement:

    "but... uhhh... it IS well established that most boys tend to pay significant attention to it when a girl is... crying. So, maybe if she's really upset, she doesn't go find a quiet corner and hide her feelings?"

    that I seemed to have misunderstood. Yes, educate the boys. Please! They are often overlooked as needing skills in this realm. I wouldn't put the task of educating the boys on this child's plate, though, nor would I have her do it through a non-genuine response. That's all. wink

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    geofizz: Oh, no, it's definitely not on her to teach that, and that particular statement is one that could use some elucidation.

    Basically, what I'm trying to say there is this: Hiding her feelings would make it difficult for the boys to recognize that they've done anything wrong.

    This of it this way... when puppies play with each other, they get as rough as they like, until one yips. Then they pause a bit. The play may begin again moments later, but with less intensity. In this way, they're learning from each other how to play without causing hurt. Owners of new puppies do the same thing, and the training process often involves owners exaggerating their pain response to teach them not to bite.

    Children (both genders) do this too, when they engage in rough play. Someone says "ow!", and the game stops, even if only briefly, and there's a conversation about what hurts, and how it happened. Basically what I'm looking for here are ways a girl can say "ow!" outside of the context of rough play.

    And apart from that, I would want to be giving my DD something that she can do to help the situation, because adults aren't always going to be observing, and even in directly observing, can't always be counted on to do the right thing.

    The crying example is extreme, and will not always be the best way to communicate this, but when a boy sees a girl crying over what he sees as normal behavior, it should get his attention. That's as alien to him as his rude behavior leading up to it was to her.

    Any other methods of communicating her "ow!" would be helpful, but the important thing is that the communication happens, and that it happens in the moment, so the boys can immediately connect their actions with her reactions. Without that vital feedback loop, it would be extremely difficult to change their behavior.

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