Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Uneven scores, LD confusion

Hi all, I'm a 22 y/o senior in college with ADHD and Executive Functions Disorder. I just got my WAIS-IV back and my scores were all over the place and I don't know what to think of it.

Verbal Comprehension: 134
Similarities-18
Vocabulary-13
Information-16
Comprehension-16 (supplemental)

Working Memory: 119
Digit Span-14
Arithmetic-13

Perceptual Reasoning: 100
Block Design-7
Matrix Reasoning-16
Visual Puzzles-7
Figure Weights-16 (supplemental)

Processing Speed: 94
Symbol Search-10
Coding-8

FSIQ 115

The Perceptual Reasoning in particular is confusing. Half of the skills are 16th percentile, the other are 98th percentile. I could not figure out how to visualize and rotate the puzzles, but the MR and FW tests were easy because I just had to analyze them.

The neuropsych said I'm "gifted" in abstract-conceptual, hypothetical-practical, and logical-analytical reasoning but I have serious problems with attention and breaking down assignments into large parts. She didn't think I had Nonverbal Learning Disorder because I could understand idioms, figures of speech, metaphors, etc. well. Anyone have an idea?

I might reconsider your psych's contention that NVLD is not an appropriate Dx. Not everyone with NVLD has difficulty with figurative language, especially with the language strengths with which you present. The core deficit, after all, is not social communication, but perceptual skills. Your profile is consistent with a focal deficit in visual-spatial skills (bd, vp, PSI). The social manifestations of NVLD may occur in social perception, including reading nonverbal cues, body language, facial expressions. Academically, some people with NVLD have challenges or relative weaknesses in mathematics, or specific aspects of mathematics, such as geometry. Often, there is a history of early relative weakness in reading decoding skills or handwriting, followed by acceleration in reading growth rate as decoding is mastered, and reading tasks switch over mainly to language comprehension.

Does any of this resonate?

I would agree with the significant strengths in language and abstract-fluid reasoning. I would add a mild normative weakness/very significant relative weakness in visual-spatial, a normatively-average/significant relative weakness in processing speed, and a normative strength/barely significant relative weakness in working memory. It is possible that the processing speed is a reflection of difficulty with sustained attention, where you have a pre-existing Dx of ADHD. Or it could be, as mentioned above, a manifestation of perceptual weaknesses.

Ditto to what Portia said - your low scores seem to all occur on tests which require vision as part of the analysis. I have a daughter who has 20/20 vision but was struggling with school in early elementary - when she had her first ability test, her scores on those tests were very very low relative to her other scores, and it turns out she had a significant vision challenge. There's a difference between what conventional eye drs test (vision in each eye) vs what a developmental optometrist looks for (weakness in eyes tracking together, peripheral vision, etc). My dd could see and we had no reason to suspect she had a vision problem, yet the reality was one of her eyes was shutting off automatically during visual tasks like reading, and she was suffering from a lot of eye strain. The only thing we'd really noticed at home pertaining to eyes was that she didn't look directly at us when we talked to her, she held her head up and looked from the side when she read, and she absolutely could *not* do a puzzle even though she tried like crazy.

After her developmental optometrist evaluation and diagnosis, she went through vision therapy and it made a *world* of difference. With the profile you've got on your WAIS, I'd at least consider the possibility of having an assessment from a developmental optometrist.

polarbear

Thanks for all the responses, I'm definitely going to try to see a developmental optometrist.

AEH- That's the weird thing, mathematics is actually one of my strengths and I was in gifted math throughout grade school, and it was highest score on my SAT's and what not. I did do a bit worse in Geometry than the other skills though. Verbally speaking, I have impairments in word-retrieval skills (2nd percentile on the TAWF test) which also shows up in my Verbal Comprehension score on the WAIS (Vocabulary is lower than all the other skills).

I took other tests and there was some weakness in my long-term visual memory (although working memory was strong). I did very poor on the Hooper Visual-Organization Test. Visually speaking, I have some mild problems with depth perception and it took me a few tries to get my driver's license as a teen, but nothing too serious.

I've researched NVLD extensively and a lot of the quirks associated with it do fit me, but I don't really have the social skills issues. I get humor, sarcasm, and can read body language and facial expressions fine. I am a bit awkward, but mostly because I don't pay attention and always zone out. That being said, I do have a lot of NLD traits- depth perception, executive function deficits, and some of the reading patterns. As a toddler my developmental motor skills were kinda delayed, but I invented my own alphabet to spell words and could read by age 4. I also loved collecting facts and have a really good rote memory.

If want your own gut check on vision, perfect time of year to pick up a pirate eye patch. Try it over one eye in your place for a half hour and then try the other. A lot of neurological vision problems relate to eye coordination. My "lazy eye" takes about three times as long to read as my other eye or both together. Executive function and attention can both be stressed by a brain over-working to compensate for a visual disconnect. If there is a big difference with the patch, you've learned something; if there is no difference you haven't learned much.

Good to hear your profile hasn't gotten in the way too much for you. You have excellent abstract reasoning, so it makes sense that all the other aspects of mathematics, except geometry, should have come easily to you. I do think what you've described continues to be consistent with perceptual challenges. It will be interesting to see what the developmental optometrist has to say.

Long-term visual memory may be related to your word retrieval difficulties, as many people store word patterns visually. What is your memory like? When you say you have a good rote memory, are you actually remembering by rote (as in able to recall meaningless strings of letters and numbers), or do you make novel associations to create meaningful connections between item sets to be memorized? Is your visual recognition memory better than your retrieval memory, or similar?

Sorry for my delayed response on this, I lost my password lol.

Now that you've put it that way, I'd say my rote memory is not very good and I don't attend well. Usually I try to only use rote memory for key concepts like in foreign language classes. I do have a lot of knowledge, but now that I think of it it's mostly just because as a kid I was obsessed with things like atlas's, biographies, and history books, etc. so I already knew most of the facts.

A lot of times my memory is only good when I'm deeply interested in things, or when I use logical memory, like on my exam when I think (fovea-->narrow visual field, rods) and things like analogies. I'm having some trouble in my new Spanish class because I hate all the tedious memorization, but I do pretty well on the tests simply because I can use logic to narrow out my options. Like the test will use a word, and I can tell by the way its worded whether it's an adjective or verb and figure out what it's not the answer to...and just repeat it until I come to right answer. I sometimes say "I'm good at using the test to cheat off the test"

I guess the thing that worries me is everything about Nonverbal Learning Disorder I've read- I know that all LD's are just discrepancies of strengths but so many things I've read about NLD strengths make me depressed or anxious. It lists things like rote memory, sequential thinking, and just acquired knowledge whereas with dyslexia it's all things like abstract reasoning and seeing the "big picture", things that seem more sophisticated

The doctor said I would be best labeled as gifted in logic (based on MR and FW), abstractions (Similarities) and practical thinking (Comprehension) and that made me feel a lot better

I would agree that you should focus on your strengths, of which you have several very significant ones. Your abstract reasoning is very good, both verbally and nonverbally. It's really only the perceptual skills that are weak. That often can affect attention and motor skills, as you've noted about yourself. Keep in mind also that the labels we have for various disorders and syndromes are based on collections of symptoms, that are often observed together (we don't have a good sense of the underlying organic bases of NVLD, for example, though there is some fMRI brain imaging research). For all the advancements that have been made in cognitive sciences and neuropsychology, what we don't understand about the brain still far outstrips what we think we do understand. Just because you see a list of strengths or weaknesses associated with NVLD, it doesn't mean either that you absolutely have NVLD, or that, even if you do, they will all be true of you.

The bottom line is to understand yourself, and how your brain works. If you know there are strengths, appreciate and employ them positively. Where there are relative weaknesses, design your life so they are supported by your strengths, or outside structures and resources. Every successful person does this.