Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Gifted/Asperger's and School Testing

This is my first time posting. DD10 (4th grade) has been receiving gifted services at her elementary school since 1st grade. She would be considered highly gifted by IQ score. I now know my daughter is 2E and she was just diagnosed with autism after a long 3 year fight with her school. I had to get multiple independent evaluations, all paid for at my expense. DD10 has been diagnosed with the following (so far): Asperger's Syndrome, ADHD, Convergence Insufficiency, Accommodative Infacility, Gross and Fine Motor skill delay. I got the evaluations sequentially rather than all at once, because the school refused to evaluate her 4 times over a two year period. Now, after filing complaints, mediation, and multiple meetings concerning what testing to be done, the school is conducting an evaluation. What worries me is the quality of their evaluation. DD10 was evaluated once in 2012 by the school and they found no evidence of disability. I have since invalidated every test they performed with independent testing. Should I be concerned? The school has only agreed to test motor, social/emotional behavioral, and language. What testing would be appropriate in her case? DD10 is struggling in the following areas:
1. Auditory Processing (verbal directions, recall and order of directions)
2. Classroom transitions
3. Behavioral (tantrums, emotional meltdowns)
4. Writing and pencil tasks
5. Sensory Issues
6. Motor skill delays
7. Slow Processing Speed
8. Social Skills
9. Communication
10. Visual Perception problems

Should I follow up with my own independent testing? If so, what would be crucial? I was told by the school if they don't find any area of disability other than motor skills, they would decline to offer her OT therapy in school. Any help navigating this process would be much appreciated!

kitkat24

Are they agreeing to include the results of your independent evaluations in the discussion? It sounds like your testing is less than a year old, which makes it not only unnecessary, but inadvisable to re-test with the same instruments.

As to your list of concerns, most of them do fall in the areas usually assessed by OT, social-emotional-behavioral, and language. The only one I might consider follow-up private testing for is #1, auditory processing, as a good central auditory processing eval usually requires hospital audiology facilities (because of the expensive specialized equipment). If that comes up as a deficit, that would also give you an additional diagnosis, so that OT becomes not a stand-alone service, but a related service. Also, you already have a diagnosis of ASD in hand, presumably from a legitimate evaluator, so the question of identifying an area of disability should be settled (as for a 504 plan). It's more a question of identifying educational impact (for an IEP).

I just wanted to offer some support. I spent 3 years battling our local school and it was incredibly demoralizing and frustrating and nothing was going to convince them they were not doing the right things by DD.

I'm dealing with the same type of thing. The school thinks it's Ok to do about 2-4 tests for a comprehensive eval, even with multiple areas of concern. They refused to evaluate some of my areas of concern, like math fluency, for instance, because DD's standardized test scores (untimed) are high and they actually put that in a prior written notice. Something like "We refuse to test X,Y, and Z because it's unwarranted." I ended up calling the State Dept. of Special Ed, which I do frequently, and talked to a woman who works in compliance or due process. She was appalled and told me to just file a complaint already. I told her I just want to get the inept people off the team and she ended up calling the special ed director who is trying to put together a decent eval. If you get the special ed director involved and say things like "I'm really trying to avoid the need to request an independent evaluation(in our state the district needs to pay), or filing a written complaint with the State." That's the ONLY thing that gets them to listen. I have tried being super nice--it never works.

We had the same issues with OT last year with DS (at a different school) and what we ended up doing was getting a written outside diagnosis of Developmental Coordination Disorder and they wrote a "Physical Impairment" IEP. "Other Health Disability" is another category he could have fit in to. That got him OT and DAPE, as well as academic services like writing from a special ed teacher since he had inadequate classroom work. He was also put into a social skills group because the outside neuropsych recommended it, although I think that has had very limited value in his case since they are placing him with kids who are much more impaired.

Call a team meeting to discuss your concerns and an evaluation plan and make sure teachers are included (unless the teachers are unhelpful). Tell them they need to be assertive about what they are dealing with. It's hard for special ed staff to argue with co-workers. If you have already had a meeting, and they refuse to test all your areas of concern, go up the chain of command. The asst. special ed director was just as unhelpful as everyone else so I had to go up to the director.


For writing/OT concerns the OT at DD's school (the only helpful person on the team) suggested:
Beery-Buktenica Developmental Test Visual-Motor Integration (otherwise known as Beery VMI)
5 minute timed writing sample compared to peers
2 sentence far point copy writing sample
Paragraph Computer Copy Writing Sample
Sensory Processing Measure (home and school)--I think because in DD's case she presses down ridiculously hard on the paper and writes over and over everything, plus she has problems with noise
Random Handwriting Sample
BOT2 (Bruiniks-Oseretsky Test of Motor Proficiency Fine Motor subtest and Manual Coordination subtests). We have outside results on this already, but she wants to do it again.

They can't diagnose dysgraphia but I told her privately I think that is what the issue is, so she is doing tests that address the issue.

For academic testing they wanted to do the Woodcock Johnson achievement writing cluster but I said they need to add to that or substitute since kids only need to write one sentence at a time, so they are talking about the WIAT writing cluster.


Good luck!

Thanks Aeh and blackcat for the comments :)

Regarding them re-testing her with the same instruments, I agree. I don't understand why they aren't accepting my outside evaluations. I have a quality psych evaluation with autism diagnosis and a hospital OT evaluation diagnosing the motor skill delays. However, they are still doing an "educational autism" evaluation (worthless imo) and their own motor skill evaluation. They are also repeating many of the behavioral questionnaires that I completed with DD10's psychologist. I am worried this is setting the stage for conflict and denying her services yet again.

The laws in the state/county I live in are very unusual. Missouri has some oddly restrictive language for their disability categories. To make matters worse, I live in St. Louis County, and they have their own Special School District. They are justifiably horrible at diagnosing, especially for autism. Everyone pays for outside evaluations, lawyers, and advocates to get access to services for their kids. None of the schools in the county have their own special education teachers, all special ed teachers are employed by the Special School District. It is a bureaucratic nightmare, wrought with communication problems between the schools and the Special School District. I have had significant difficulty navigating the system, and have had DD10's rights violated frequently. Sometimes I think it would just be easier to move out of the county rather than fight these endless battles.

Blackcat,

Thank you for the testing suggestions. I will look into some of these. She has had the Beery VMI and the BOT2 done. The school refused to do a writing assessment because they say she isn't failing any subjects! I fought so hard for this during our meetings, but ultimately they refused. DD10 has a lot of writing task refusal and her writing quality is not what you would expect from someone with her verbal ability and IQ. She is left handed and her penmanship is really awful. They did say that instead of writing help they would just allow her to use a keyboard to type. I may have to follow up on this myself if she continues to have difficulty. Thanks for mentioning the OHI category, I hadn't been considering that, but it could be an option for DD10.

With respect to filing a complaint...In my state, filing a complaint is a legal process and requires a lawyer. We tried mediation as a first pass. I was told by my advocate that filing a complaint with the State means that all discussions with the school will cease, and you will proceed to a hearing with a judge. I am holding filing the complaint as a last ditch effort. If communication breaks down and she is denied services again, it may come to that.

I received a notification of meeting indicating that DD10's eligibility for Special Education services meeting will be on December 2nd. Is there anything I can do prior to this meeting to prepare? They listed a huge number of people attending the meeting. Attending the meeting will be, the school psychologist, school counselor, 2 special education teachers, a representative from the Special School District listed as "Area Coordinator", language diagnostician, occupational therapist, adaptive physical education expert, effective practice specialist (no idea what this is), speech language specialist, physical therapist.

Meanwhile, attending and advocating in support of DD10 will be myself and her special education advocate. Is it typical for so many different people to attend these meetings? I have had DD10's psychologist attend some prior meetings. Do I need to have her present for this meeting? Any advice would be appreciated. I am feeling overwhelmed after getting this letter! I feel like I am walking into an ambush!

My understanding is they do their testing, then conclude a plan is not necessary. Then depending on your district you appeal, have a arbitrator, or file a complaint. One just keeps signing up for further steps until one reaches a final moment when the school/district would have to pay a lot of money (hire outside lawyer or pay for expensive independent testing). At that point they realize a plan Is cheaper and cave. It's not worth it for them before that moment. At least that's how I hear it goes.

Keep up with documenting every moment of unfair struggle by the child, don't get distracted by the meetings/testing/waiting and forget the polite to teacher emails, lest someone say at your appeal next fall "well all your complaints are now 6 months old so child obviously hasn't had problems lately."

Not every system takes that adversarial a position. No comment on this specific school.

The number of participants invited to this meeting is actually quite normal for this kind of eligibility meeting, where there are multiple factors involved with 2e. There are only a couple of roles there which I have not seen routinely in similar situations. Each of the specialists is there to present their piece of the evaluation, which is actually a good thing. Some systems have the chair read through and interpret all the findings, which can be more problematic, as they are not always qualified to interpret every specialist report.

Bring whomever you feel will help you to be most effective in presenting your perspective, and as an advocate for your child. You do not have to notify the school district beforehand about anyone you want to bring with you, although I would highly recommend that you do let them know, as a courtesy, especially if you bring anyone with a JD. Many systems will re-schedule the meeting if you bring an attorney unannounced, as they frequently have policies that the school counsel must be present for any meeting attended by an outside attorney.

ETA: Oh, and some of the invitees are probably there because there are different levels of their specialization. E.g., one of the speech and language people is probably an SLP, which is a higher level than a speech assistant. The SLP probably does the evaluations, while the assistant would do the therapy. One of them may have done the testing, while the other did classroom observations. Especially if all the diagnosticians are housed at a central district office, which usually means they aren't as in touch with what actually happens in classrooms and student daily function. You'll see the same thing with PTs and APE staff, or OTs and COTAs. And there might be a behavior specialist, who could have any of a number of titles.

I'm less pessimistic than Polly at this stage. The long list of attendees tells me that they actually tested in a bunch of areas - that's a good thing. At our services meeting, we had the school SLP, OT, psychologist, special ed teacher, special ed director, and teacher. The OT reported that he "passed" all the tests well enough that he didn't need services. The SLP and the special ed teacher did recommend services, and they offered an IEP with 4 sessions/week of special ed and 1 session/week of "speech" therapy (in quotes because it's actually mostly reading comprehension, not speech per se).

I do think that this is probably a good meeting for your psychologist to attend if you can do it.

Spend a little time on Wrightslaw familiarizing yourself with the terminology, and attend the meeting with a hopeful heart. But don't let them pressure you into signing anything you don't agree with.

Does this mean the school has completed their testing?


I actually read this as a good sign - each of these people plays a different role, and if eligibility *testing* has been completed, and each of these people is attending the meeting, in many districts that would be a sign that your dd is eligible for services and the team will be writing up the draft IEP at the meeting.

If testing hasn't been completed and this is just a meeting to determine whether or not to proceed with testing to determine eligibility, that's a slightly different type of meeting to prepare for - but I don't think that's what's up here. If it is, let us know.

Re what to do to prepare - I would ask for a copy of all test results that the school conducted. It's helpful to ask to have them 5 days in advance so you can review them before the meeting; this might not happen, but at least ask. In our case we received the reports the day before the meeting but even that was helpful - we weren't walking in "blind".



I think this is probably enough, unless you have reason to expect an adversarial meeting. In reality, it's difficult to prepare for bringing in your own expert when you don't have results from the school yet. I wouldn't ask the psychologist or other people to attend at this point, but instead wait and call them in to a follow-up meeting if you realize once the meeting starts that you need them.

Remember that it's ok at any point in time to stop the meeting and say you have a concern and want to reschedule for a time when "professional x" can be present.

There is one other person I'd consider bringing though - either a spouse or a supportive friend, someone who can listen with a separate set of ears. These meetings can be both very overwhelming in the amount of information that is discussed, the discussions can move quickly, and sometimes the meetings can be very emotional for a parent. Having that extra person who is there just to be your support can help. They can take notes, and they can also listen with an independent set of ears.


I really don't think you're walking into an ambush. I think that your school recognizes your dd qualifies for services and they are going to offer up a plan. It might be a great plan, or it might not be. That's where your advocate can really jump in and help. And also remember - you don't have to sign anything at the meeting. You can always wait and sign after you've had time to think about it.

My last piece of prep advice - you might want to record the meeting. There are pros and cons to recording, and policies re what's allowed and what you have to do to get the ok vary from state to state and district to district. I personally usually don't record meetings but instead send a follow-up email to the group of people who attended where I write down a summary of everything that *I* perceived was discussed and we agreed to, and give the group a chance to verify they also agree that's what we discussed and agreed upon. In our situation, I felt that making a request to record would put off the school or raise a concern re why I wanted to record the meetings, but we were already in a very contentious situation with the school trying to fight us tooth and nail every step of the way. I do wish I had recordings of several of our meetings, for two reasons: first reason, there were occasions where something was said in a meeting that was later denied, and second reason, there was just so much info discussed, I would have liked to be able to listen through the meeting again to be sure I hadn't missed anything or forgotten anything after the meeting was over.

Hope some of that helps!

Best wishes,

polarbear