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    Joined: Nov 2013
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    I have struggled with this thread as I am confused about some of the turns it has taken. I did read what was written on the other forum and that made me more confused, particularly about what was understood as Giftedness.

    This is from one of binip's earlier posts:

    "I do have an idea of a services-needing gifted child, but that is not my image of a smart child, a bright child, or a high performing child. It is rather the type of child who is so driven to engage that refusing her the opportunity could be painful. It is for this child that gifted programs exist. The high-critical, high-creativity, does not function in the classroom environment kid. I mean most kids are bored with rote learning. Everyone hates worksheets designed for remedial learners. With gifted kids it is something different.

    Otherwise, why spend public money on it?

    Anyway... Reading this message board gives me the feeling that I could probably test until I found her awesomeness, if I needed that number."

    There were a couple of things in that for me. I totally agree about that children who need services are different to the bright or high performing students. I also agree that giftedness isn't all about the number but IQ tests are one of the few external measures accepted by schools to access services. A high IQ is a valid measure, but there are gifted kids who still aren't identified by the current intelligence measures, particularly 2 E kids and it can take repeated tests and different assessments to provide a true picture of their capabilities, if then. That isn't the same as gaming the system or prepping.

    Special needs services apply to children at both ends of the exceptional spectrum, although there doesn't seem to be so much competition to access classes for students who have IQ's below the average. Interestingly, while there is much greater acceptance that an IQ test result identifies students at one end of exceptionality, there continues to be controversy about what constitutes an IQ in the gifted range. Perhaps the changing nature of the instruments available for testing and the variability in the response from gifted individuals is part of the confusion but it is quite clear that there are outliers at either end and they have needs which are not met easily in the standard education system.

    The problem of competition for gifted services continues to be fraught with angst as there is no standardised external rating of what constitutes a true gifted program, as opposed to a program that could be equally valuable to all high achieving students. However, a non-gifted student shouldn't be feeling comfortable and thriving in a gifted class and if they are, then they have been misidentified or the class is not truly serving the needs of the gifted. Prepping non gifted shouldn't work if the service is truly for the gifted as prepped non gifted kids should find their needs aren't being serviced in that class. The fact that it happens goes back to my earlier point about how to identify a program for the gifted.

    There are difficulties identifying gifted students but they are a real population. 2e students are a population who can be a particular challenge as so many of you have struggled with, both to identify and find an appropriate placement for education that deals with both exceptionality Es.

    The myths surrounding giftedness do make life difficult and aggravating for all of us. We come here so that we can be supported by people who understand the problems.


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    how to identify a program for the gifted
    Agreed. Identifying a program for the gifted is different than identifying kids for a program.

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    Originally Posted by 22B
    I would say rant away. It's not just the OP's choices with their own family that are an issue. It is that the OP has expressed views/myths that are harmful to gifted education in general, and which are the kind of views/myths that are making life harder for all of us.

    would love to but I try as much as possible not to contribute negatively. I have nothing at all nice to say about this thread so I'm going to follow mother's advice wink

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    high IQ is a valid measure, but there are gifted kids who still aren't identified by the current intelligence measures, particularly 2 E kids and it can take repeated tests and different assessments to provide a true picture of their capabilities, if then. That isn't the same as gaming the system or prepping.

    This is such an excellent response in light of binip's description of what she feels constitutes true giftedness, I have to say. The "high-critical, high-creativity, does not function in the classroom environment kid" is exactly the child who may not be easily identifiable with a standard boxed test.

    I don't personally agree that this is the only child who need services. I actually think that's district- and school-dependent, though, which is quite a can of worms. My children need services in their area but might not have needed them in a high-performing, wealthy district where they were "less rare." They are not 2E and they are both conventional enough in what they learn that they don't have to go outside typical educational structuring to function well. But they get bored as hell.

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