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Joined: Feb 2013
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It's amazing what you can find on the internet. http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/t...believe-is-unethical/page-2#entry5986995I am pretty sure that of the parents who have commented on my thread at the gifted advocacy forums (not WTM), nearly every single one of them paid for multiple private (i.e. unregulated) tests and got exemptions to ensure that their child, whom they were uniquely qualified to evaluate as one of the truly special in this world, got public services. (You can see this in their other posts.) So there you go. You've all been tarred with the same brush. That's what you get for trying to help.
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Joined: Nov 2012
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Don't for a second fantasize that Nadella's comments are in any way innocuous. To brush it off as an offense against political correctness is to give his statement tacit approval. Here is the full quote from Nadella. It is certainly debatable, but I don't think it is outrageous, and it probably reflects what he thinks. It's not going to benefit women or men if people are only free to say what is politically correct. He's saying that demanding at each point in time the maximum compensation that your employer might give to prevent you from leaving can create "good karma". That is plausible. He has climbed to the top at Microsoft. Maybe he know something about how to scale the corporate ladder? "It's not really about asking for the raise but knowing and having faith that the system will actually give you the right raises as you go along," Nadella said. "And that, I think, might be one of the additional superpowers that, quite frankly, women who don't ask for a raise have. Because that's good karma."
He added that doing so would make a woman's boss think "that's the kind of person that I want to trust."
"That's the kind of person that I want to really give more responsibility to, and, in the long-term efficiency, things catch up," he said. "I wonder - and I'm not saying that's the only approach - I wonder whether taking the long term helps solve for what might be perceived as this uncomfortable thing of, 'Hey, am I getting paid right? Am I getting rewarded right?' because reality is your best work is not followed with your best reward.
"Your best work then has impact, people recognize it and then you get the rewards. So you have to somehow think that through, I think." There wouldn't be such a problem if he were advocating biding your time to all employees. But that's not what he said. His comments discourage women specifically--recall that Nadella addressed a conference of women in computing--from seeking compensation in line with that of equivalent male colleagues. I guess while males receive higher compensation for equal work, women can feed, clothe, shelter, and educate their children with their banked karma. Sorry Bostonian, I don't buy it.
What is to give light must endure burning.
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Joined: Nov 2012
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It's amazing what you can find on the internet. http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/t...believe-is-unethical/page-2#entry5986995I am pretty sure that of the parents who have commented on my thread at the gifted advocacy forums (not WTM), nearly every single one of them paid for multiple private (i.e. unregulated) tests and got exemptions to ensure that their child, whom they were uniquely qualified to evaluate as one of the truly special in this world, got public services. (You can see this in their other posts.) So there you go. You've all been tarred with the same brush. That's what you get for trying to help. Well that dovetails nicely with the discussion of karma.
What is to give light must endure burning.
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Joined: Aug 2010
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Hey binip, I commented on your thread, but my kids were tested once each through the public schools, by a complete stranger, without a parent anywhere in the building, after passing a prescreening initiated by the school system. Just FTR. (Can they have public services now?)
Many of the kids on this forum got private testing because they are 2E. (My kids are not.) I'd guess half the forum here has 2E kids?
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just deleted my post because I got crazy mad at this thread and wrote some things that I 100% agree with but may have been irrelevant to Binip upon second reading. I will say though - you need to get over your martyrdom through your children - nobody is going to thankyou for it, it's like not feeding your kids because there are starving children in Africa.
Last edited by Mahagogo5; 10/20/14 09:36 PM.
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When you control for benefits and job stability, I think people in the public sector are better compensated than in the private sector on average. Biggs and Richwine found this to be the case for public school teachers. It's pretty silly to look at teachers, because the markets are highly unequal. The public sector marketplace for teaching is vast compared to the private sector, and it's also far more demanding, with greater requirements for credentialing, etc. Where the marketplace is robust in both sectors, you tend to see competitive pricing between the two. I've been an IT worker in both private and public sectors, which is in demand everywhere, and I found my wage/benefits structures in both to be comparable. Public sector features like comp time are offset by private sector features like annual bonuses. Other ubiquitous jobs get the same treatment. And where the private marketplace is almost nonexistent, workers are screwed. In most areas of this country, we pay a pittance to social workers, law enforcement, etc. It's a wonder anyone takes those jobs.
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Also compare allied health professionals, many of whom have analogous positions in public education and the healthcare industry: OTs, PTs, SLPs, psychs, MSWs/LMHCs, etc.
And basically the same credentialling.
Last edited by aeh; 10/21/14 08:23 AM.
...pronounced like the long vowel and first letter of the alphabet...
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just deleted my post because I got crazy mad at this thread and wrote some things that I 100% agree with but may have been irrelevant to Binip upon second reading. I will say though - you need to get over your martyrdom through your children - nobody is going to thankyou for it, it's like not feeding your kids because there are starving children in Africa. I would say rant away. It's not just the OP's choices with their own family that are an issue. It is that the OP has expressed views/myths that are harmful to gifted education in general, and which are the kind of views/myths that are making life harder for all of us.
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Joined: Sep 2007
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I agree. OP, I think you were mixing two problems and seeing them as only one. Problem 1: my kid needs some kind of accommodation because she's gifted. Problem 2: people try to prep their non-gifted kids into gifted programs for a variety of reasons. Problem 2 is not a reason to deny an accommodation for your daughter in problem 1. Don't let your opinion about problem 2 affect your response to problem 1. It's pretty silly to look at teachers, because the markets are highly unequal. ...
Where the marketplace is robust in both sectors, you tend to see competitive pricing between the two. I've been an IT worker in both private and public sectors, which is in demand everywhere, and I found my wage/benefits structures in both to be comparable. Public sector features like comp time are offset by private sector features like annual bonuses. Other ubiquitous jobs get the same treatment. The difference in the IT sector is that IT workers tend to be highly skilled in an area that most people aren't skilled in at all. Compare to teachers who often aren't skilled at all in what they teach (e.g. K-8 mathematics!). Most people wouldn't even be capable of getting a degree in engineering and only ~4% of undergraduate degrees in the US in 2009 were in this field ( source; page 3). This means that the supply is very low compared to teaching, where ~14% of all degrees were awarded in 2009. Also, IT workers are constantly evaluated in a meaningful way. Not writing your code? Not keeping up with your security task list? You're fired. IT people don't get tenure and get rewarded for doing a good job. The salary bump in public sector IT is a response to what people get in the private sector. No one who's even average in IT would work for low pay barring extreme circumstances. In most areas of this country, we pay a pittance to social workers, law enforcement, etc. It's a wonder anyone takes those jobs. Where I live (as in, most of this state), cops and others in the category you mentioned are retiring in their mid-50s with 100K+ pensions. Some people get 200K+ pensions. Plus they all get healthcare for life. I have to go, but will try to find a link later.
Last edited by Val; 10/21/14 02:36 PM.
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