Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional out-of-control tantrums

Hi there !
I wanted to write quite a long post about my DS10. But, as I got no much time and the situation is getting once again kind of difficult at home. I decide to write something not too long ....
Let's start by the positive points. We started homeschooling DS and his sister (aged 7.5 now) in september 2013. He was then diagnosed with dyslexia, dyscalculia, dysgraphia, dyspraxia, ADD, .... Although high IQ, many sholar stuffs were just unreachable for him. My wife quited her job and homeschooled them. We stopped many things such as OT, speach therapy, partly due to money and DS being exhausted. Now, DS is able to read quite easily, still under his age-level but well beyond what we expected when starting homeschool. In school, he wrote like 3 words a day, now, he is able to write several lines, able to write small dictations, small essays (10 to 20 lines) in an understandable handwriting. He can also add 4-digits numbers without putting them in columns in 15 seconds. Her former speach therapist who did diagnosed dyscalculia, said he is no more and she was confounded by where he is now at reading.... I won't comment here about what I think about the school system down here.
So what ? The problem is that the behavior of DS is still the same as it was, or even worse. That is to say that we have to struggle for everything (except homeschool). Let's have an example. Yesterday evening, he got back from an exhibition downtown with his sister and mother. He asked for TV, and we refused as he took too long a time to get washed (for everything we ask, he skips and starts playing or watching books). Then our lovely kid turned into a kind of devil, screaming at us, throwing things around the place, saying that he wants to kill himself. Nothing can stop him except raw force (which I use just in extreme cases... I mean catching him, definitely not beating him). Then, we want him to come and have his meal. He did not. I started by trying to force him and I screamed. His mother told me to stop and to let him and she tried making him understand by words and waiting. When he came he just take a bowl of dried grape (raisin) and throwed them on the table. I screamed, he left from the kitchen. We started eating without him, we ate the starter. As he was still not here, his mother took his plate off. When he decided to come back he discovered that instead of the grated carrots (the starter), he now had smashed patatoes ... So he screamed again .... And so on.
Well that's what happened yesterday, but yesterday was just as the other days. Several tantrums a day. Let's say up to 5, generally 2 or 3. They can last about 30 min to one hour. It is then just like hell at home. They can stop just in a blink of an eye, and then he becomes a normal kid, just as if nothing happened. His little sister is more and more hurt by how her brother is. I mean she is very very close to her brother, but she does not understand him then. It is a pitty to see the expression of despair on her face when the house is upside down due to the behavioral troubles of DS. This morning, as another tantrum occured (this time because he was looking at a book on the sealife instead of having his breakfast), she said to DW that she's not sure to be able to go on with homeschooling ...
Well, there are actually less tantrums than there was during the school years. At least, there are no more those terrible homework tantrums which drove us crazy and exhausted. During the homeschool period, he is under medication and things are not too bad ... Well, sometimes, he can get hard but not too much.
We clearly do not know how to behave regarding those tantrums. Her mother thinks kind of the "psychiatrist" way: he wants to be the king and he enters tantrum to get to the point he wants to be. So, she tells that we should not pay any attention to what is doing and make him pay (with true money) if he breaks something. I do not share this view. From my point of view, it is purely neurophysiological. He just cannot help himself doing those things, just like an asperger would. But in anycase, we do not know how to behave to face those tantrums. For instance, following the yesterday event, DW wants to punish him for what he did by not allowing him to watch TV today (My kids are watching selected DVDs about 30min to 1 hour/day) . I told her that it is pointless because, those tantrums are not under his control. So, the result will just be another tantrum without any chance for him to act positively to get to what he wants. But, then she asked what to do ...Well, I do not know. I have no ideas .... I personnaly think that being more strict, severe with him is the only way. But, with him, this rapidly turns into a "fight". Compared to his sister, when we are not happy with her we can reprimand her, maybe several times, but at one point, she just stops. With DS, this never happens. Moreover, as he is getting stronger and stronger, we are afraid that at one point, we won't be able to manage those situations. We are also afraid that he can hurt himself (he can punch his own face) or his sister or ourself. We are in despair ... DW was crying last night not only for what happened, but mainly for being afraid of the future. She quited her job and carrier, our financial situation is not safe anymore (as DW stopped working), for what ? I told her that with DS it is no use to think about tomorrow, you just can seize the day and hope...

First, I am sorry that your family has had such a difficult time with this. It should go without saying that parenting in this kind of situation is exhausting, frustrating, and discouraging.

Second, where I don't know your child or the details, I won't presume to assume that I know what is going on, but I will say that, no matter what the cause of the tantrums is, it is critically important that you and your spouse come to some kind of consensus on how you will deal with them, and then do so, consistently. It may be that they are primarily neurophysiological in origin, or it may be that they are primarily behavioral in origin (most of the time, these things are a little bit of both). Either way, inconsistency across caregivers will only escalate the behaviors.

Third, whether or not he is making choices about the tantrums, or truly cannot control them (and I might closely consider the question of choice, given the abrupt cessation of his tantrums), it is also important that all of the adults maintain a calm, rational approach to dealing with him. (Believe me, I know that this can be very difficult, in the moment; sometimes one needs to step away for a moment, regroup, and then return to the situation.)

I agree that the first consideration is his safety and that of others around him. This includes the emotional trauma these kinds of episodes between him and his parents leaves with his sister.

A few more thoughts: I do know that, for some children, an approach similar to what you describe (exacting an actual monetary cost for damage that he does during a tantrum) has been effective, especially when it is primarily behavioral. You are also reporting that he behaves noticeably better when on his medication. Perhaps exploring medication or dosage adjustments with his medical team would be appropriate.

The work of Ross Greene is worth a look: "The Explosive Child", www.livesinthebalance.org

Well, thanks aeh.

the fact is that we tried a lot of things regarding those tantrums. At one point, I simply chose to let the mother act her own way, without trying to interfer and also supporting her. We also try as much as possible not to argue between us in front of him.

He already broke many things (hopefully small things since we began making him responsible for what he broke). He paid for them without being reluctant and even agreeing with that. This changed nothing. But, it is hard for me to let him break more costful things (which indeed he cannot afford paying them). The other day, he thought he broke his sister's keyboard ... He entered then in a despaired behavior crying, yelling he is mentally insane. All he wanted was sleeping, to forget what he did. I was the first to try to see what happened. He refused to tell me what happened, I just cannot help him from crying, yelling. I tried to take him in my arms just to let him go down. It did not work. He wanted his mother... He just calmed down when after talking with his mother who finally know what happened, she told me what happened and I told her that nothing was indeed broken (although he could think it was).
When I talk about "blink of an eye" change in attitude, it is very strange as it really seems not to be rational.
It is very hard to keep calm in front of him. Last summer, he was eating cherry tomatoes. He took one of them between one finger and thumb and press. I told him very calm not to press too much. He then looked me in the eye and press and of course, the tomato explode.... He can be very very provocative, telling us insane things ... It is such non sense.

I will look to Ross Greene work

Oh I am sorry your family is going through this. My DS6 sometimes has big tantrums which upset the whole family. It is frustrating and exhausting. I can only imagine at 10 yrs old it would be harder to deal with.

I second the idea of looking into his medication. I remember my little brother being tried on Ritalin and while it helped him at school, at home (when it was wearing off) he was a disaster, behaving completely unlike himself.

The only other advice I might suggest is trying to understand if there is a pattern to the tantrums and seeing if there is a way to avoid the triggers - is he hungry, tired, frustrated, etc.? Once my kids are in the middle of a 'big emotion' (anger, anxiety, whatever) there is not a lot of value in trying to reason with them. I've found the best I can do is comfort and empathize with them and save the rational discussion for after. I also try to help them verbalize their feelings (ie "You look like you are having a big feeling! Are you feeling very angry? You are mad at me for [what I said, did, etc].? It's OK to feel angry, when you are calmer we can discuss [x]")

I have also found some useful tips on this site:
http://thinkkids.org/does-your-child-ever-seem-unreasonable/?

It is hard to remember parenting advice when you child is in a tantrum state. But I found the "Regulate, relate, reason" approach a useful one.

http://www.amazon.com/Transforming-Difficult-Child-Nurtured-Approach/dp/0967050707

I am so sorry for what you are experiencing. My daughter has intense melt-downs (I believe in her case due to PTSD) and it is very difficult to stay calm.

I do just want to say that re: the tomato incident, I get it. Even as an (mostly well-adjusted, pro-social) adult, if I would be tempted to do exactly what your son did. (I wouldn't, but it would be tempting.) I would just choose to avoid any power struggles unless it was a behavior I felt very strongly about.

This book is great: http://www.amazon.com/Transforming-Difficult-Child-Nurtured-Approach/dp/0967050707

Some may say it is wise to be specific in managing expectations. For example, a parent might say: " You may have TV if you get washed and come straight here, without playing or looking at books. But if you choose not to get washed and come straight here, you may not have TV. The choice is yours." This sets clear expectations and the child will know you can be trusted to follow through. From reading the post, the child may have the perception that parents agreed to TV and then changed their minds arbitrarily, leaving the child feeling disempowered. The child may not understand the role of his own choices as leading to the consequences.

Announcing, "the carrots will be served for 5 minutes, then it is time for potatoes" can be used to manage the child's expectations.

Some have said that "tantrums" are purposeful attempts by a child in control of himself to manipulate a situation; "meltdowns" are cognitive overload by a child overwhelmed and therefore not in control of himself. Effective parenting may respond differently to tantrums than to meltdowns.

Some may say this sounds arbitrary and punitive... why punish a child for looking at a book, even during breakfast time? Isn't this type of flexibility a benefit of homeschooling? If there is truly a need to stay on schedule, might a parent advise, "No books until after breakfast. That's a house rule. If you choose to break the rule, I will mark that on the calendar. 5 broken house rules in a month will indicate you have chosen to no longer homeschool, but rather have chosen to return to school."

Were expectations proactively managed regarding the result of behavior choices? For example, "A tantrum today will result in loss of TV privileges tomorrow."

From the child's point of view, it may be that he never knows what to expect. It may appear that adults cannot be trusted, but rather make up arbitrary rules on the fly, according to their moods.

Well, hard to say everything in a post. Indeed, since last summer, we put in ths children room and in the kitchen a time schedule. The kids therefore know at which time the lunch is and that if they are ready before that time they can have access to TV. We also recall them that time is running. So DS is perfectly aware of what is going on. This absolutly do not prevent him from playing or whatever is willing to except washing. By the way, washing is also on the time schedule ...

Well, in that case, for DW, it is tantrums, and for me, I define those episodes as meltdowns. In fact, I guess sometimes it is tantrums, but then things last for few minutes and he quickly realizes that it is a dead-end and stops. He then will scream, yell, but soon come to eat or whatever is on the schedule

I second the Explosive Child book/method.

Do you think it's lack of impulse control? Does he have necessary tools to handle his anger/frustration? Can you help him verbalize his emotions?

I had to remind myself last night _again_ that my child is lacking the skills to behave and not intentionally misbehaves. With that attitude, I can teach him how to behave in difficult situations.

Also, instead of looking at individual incidents (e.g. throwing things after being told no TV), try to look at the bigger picture. Why did he do that? Because he was frustrated being told no TV, but he couldn’t verbalize it. Teaching him how to express his emotions will go a long way.

Just remember, you are not a bad parent. Good luck.

I guess there is a misunderstanding in there. That is his little sister who said that she cannot truly stand what is going on and speak about homeschool. By the way, we tried reward with DS (Barkley). It did work of one month or so when he was 7 but quickly he told us something like he cannot be bought ....