Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Insight into "Tantrums"

Dd 9 is our youngest child. All of her older half-siblings are probably gifted at some level, but she is our most extreme. We are homeschooling her as that is our only real option.

We had her tested 3 years ago, and she missed Davidson by a hair. Although she was uncooperative with the tester, we really haven't seen the need to re-evaluate. We may do Explore this year as our yearly test, just for another angle.

At the time of the test, the Neuropysc (one of the nationally recommended for gifted kiddos), strongly recommended home school with rigorous, engaging curricula (and very strongly discouraged unschooling, which we were doing at that point). It has proven to be good advice.

Although she's always been intense and argumentative, at this point, every day requires full de-escalation techniques on my part to get through the day. Most recently, she's begun throwing "tantrums". There is no "heat" behind them, although it can quickly escalate. Scribbling in textbooks, crumbling papers, slamming her fist on the piano during practice. It feels very manipulative. She doesn't want to do anything "hard". Everything requires an argument. Everything.

She's in extracurriculars she likes, her schooling is largely 2-3 full grade levels ahead of her age grade, and subjects she finds interesting (well, except maybe spelling, which is a necessity). She's learning, but isn't being pushed to her limit by any means.

I've streamlined things so she's mostly working 4-5 hours a day, 4 days per week- including piano practice and an outside class with kids she likes. She helps me with volunteer activities and has adequate downtime to day dream, do art, and be creative.

I work 20 or so hours a week, mostly evening and Saturday, so she doesn't have too much time with me.

Anyone BTDT or can recommend a resource? I'm worn out.

Thanks!
Bean

I always recommend Ross Greene's CPS: www.livesinthebalance.org
The Explosive Child (recently revised, in a 2014 edition)

And I would start to look for any kind of pattern. Think of behavior as communicative, and try to find the "message".

Under what conditions are these incidents occurring? at certain times of day? on certain days of the week? after particular activities? when hungry? tired? after a busy day? a disruption in routine? for certain task-types? has she recently undergone any changes in her life situation or those of key figures in her life?

What does she get out of an episode? escaping work? your attention (either related or unrelated to instruction)? a neurotransmitter rush?

Thank you for this. I've read the book, and don't see anything that strikes a chord at the Ross Greene site. You did get me thinking about what the message was she wanted to communicate.

It was just the two of us home this evening, so I thought I'd just ask her. Very articulate child that she is, she gave me a lovely answer about being frustrated, wanting to be right, wanting to be done, etc. For what it's worth, there was probably some truth to it. While she was talking, though, her body language was very fidgety, like she had somewhere to go. I was cutting into her day-dreaming time.

She has a rich fantasy world she invents, largely based on what she is reading, mixed with her own details. She walks or swings while she does this. It goes on for hours a day. She was at it for at least 4 hours today while I was at work, and is back outside right now.

I guess I should have connected the two. New book series to day dream about? New frustrations and tantrums because she isn't there.

She's always had imaginary friends. She does well in real life with social interactions and has a number of real life acquaintances- including a "best friend".

The only cure for the current obsessive re-living of what she is reading is to introduce a new series/ book. We've been through all of Narnia, Black Cauldron, How to Train Your Dragon, and Harry Potter Series' as well as dozens of short term single books and day dreams in the last 6 months. I wish there was an awesome fantasy series about a girl who did her homework and didn't argue with her parents.

I actually had to physically take away the Harry Potter and How to Train Your Dragon books because they were such a disruption to life. She loved Hobbit, but because she doesn't seem to be able to place herself into it, it hasn't been a problem.

I guess there really isn't a resource for this, is there?

She loves non-fiction, too. I don't think I can realistically restrict her to reading only non-fiction, though. Besides, she would be stuck in Harry Potter (the current obsession) until she found a new fantasy.

Okay-- this sounds exactly like me starting around that age and continuing in a more conservative manner well into adulthood. I would become so overstimulated by what I was reading that I would immerse myself in a fantasy world replete with my own details. Real life was "drag" compared to what I could mentally construct from a book. It could completely explain the impatience with the grind of daily life for a highly imaginative child.

Here is what worked for me-- my family had a mini trampoline. I would bounce and think-- sometimes putting on some music. The advantage was that the mental overstimulation would wane once my body became tired. The trampoline was gradually replaced by long walks, then eventually a strong running regimen (complete with headphones to screen out real world distractions). I found in my case that there was a heavy connection with mental and physical over excitability. Intense, short amounts of exercise (alone) helped with the balance.

I am in mid forties and can still still get overstimulated by a good book or interesting thought. Because my physical energy is diminishing- pacing the floor or periods of silent contemplation work now.

I was this way, as a child. That's why I have never had issue with her daydreaming and imaginary friends. I just never made the connection with her behavior.

I was even a runner for a similar reason.

Thanks. I just need to channel it better, I believe.

Sounds like a good pinpointing of what is going on. Been there myself at times, it may also favor some structure for her to help control. As an alternative consider making fantasy fiction writing part of your curriculum, whether fan fiction or original. The life skill would be more about her developing her own control mechanic, because that sort of hedonistic addictive mechanic can introduce a lot of challenges... and beware of online multi-player games in the future.

Actually, we've had problems with the multi-player online games with an older sibling; he is sitting out a semester of engineering school at the moment. We've worked with her to find the "right" amount of screen time, and for her, it's almost none.

I would welcome any resource ideas for a "control mechanic" life skill. I may share with older brother, too.

I'll consider the fantasy fiction writing. She's been reluctant to do so in the past, but maybe if offered it as an alternative to a history essay? :o)

My son is doing this (the closest description I could find on the internet is Maladaptive Daydreaming), and I think it's his way of dealing with boredom and anxiety. In his head, he is all-powerful (he has fear of germs, and has separation anxiety) so I think this is this is his way of relaxing/escaping the anxiety and/or boredom. As a child, what I hated most was having to do things I didn't want to do, at a time I didn't want to do them, I hated not being free to do what I wanted to do in life, because I was too young, etc. I hated being bored and having to wait.

In his head he is free and powerful and has amazing adventures and battles. Unfortunately he has discovered that it is an excellent escape and is daydreaming in his class a majority of the time, and if we turn off his trigger (TV) he will melt down, even though he is fairly stable temperment-wise. I think he deep-sixed his chance to get into the gifted program because he likely daydreamed through some instructions. So in our case, it is Maladaptive, but if she is just using it as an escape, what you are doing when you cut into her daydreaming is you are taking away her favorite toy, right while she is playing with it...

I second Portia's advice about making sure she gets enough exercise (although a lot of these types of daydreamers use exercise to improve the daydreaming which may be why she's swinging). Just watch whats going on, and maybe set some rules for daydreaming -give her a specific time that is just hers to do it- see if she can do it though. With my son I don't know if I could set rules for it, he would probably break them as it's a way he's coping with anxiety.

Also ZS is right on about addictiveness- there are a lot of adults on the web who are trying to figure out how to stop dreaming their lives away...

Also, the good news is that if you outgrew it, this may be completely developmental and she will learn to channel it just like you did. And cammom has some good points too.

I think I read that Nikola Tesla walked 8-10 miles a day. Wonder if he was using that to think up some of his ideas...

All of this input does help.

I will track the patterns, but it pretty much occurs when she is not actively engaged in something I've required her to do. She does turn down most "non essential" activities in favor of "walking her circle".

We're starting a writing class this week (I'm teaching a group of middle graders), so I'll nudge for some day dream incorporation from her.

Projects haven't worked because she is sloppy and quick so she can get back to her day dreaming. It was a huge problem with 4H this year, actually.

Maybe we have crossed the line into something "maladaptive".

She does get quite a bit of physical activity (swim team, hiking, etc), but literally mountain climbing (on vacation) is the only one we noticed a decrease in the day dreaming, although it still occurred if we had an hour of downtime at the campground in the evening.

She was very sensory seeking as an infant and literally always needed to move. She still is, but it's more face touching, scab picking, fingernail chewing-type stuff. I wonder if it would be worse without the swinging/ daydream walking.

Museums (art and science) seem to give her enough mental stimulation to distract her for a day or two.

She's done well with drama classes (actually was in a commercial recently), but as an ongoing thing it won't work with our schedule. She's been invited to audition by two different directors, but our local youth theater group is 60 miles away and productions require attending rehearsals four days per week for 6 weeks at a time.