Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional DS7 -issues at school

DS7 (second grade) has never been easy, no doubt about that. However, his school behavior improved drastically by preK, and we had no "out of normal issues" in school until this year.

The teachers called us in for a conference and said that DS seems to have problems communicating with the other children. The gist is that he doesn't read social cues well- does a little bothering (e.g. getting in personal space), has problems compromising, and doesn't take peer feedback. I'm hearing that he can be inattentive to school work, has a tendency to interrupt (sometimes asking irrelevant questions), and is a bit "slow" to get his things together at the end of the day and when moving from a class. These problems are not "daily" but enough to bring us in for a meeting.

Homework has been a rough start- DS has difficulty with tedious tasks and managing frustration with mistakes. (think "meltdown" when he makes a mistake).

The teachers say when he is interested, DS is highly engaged-- apparently writing was a problem until he got a topic that captured his interest, then he wrote three cogent paragraphs. He's accelerated in math- which I think may be causing some friction because he likes to talk about math. DS has said that he's being "socially bullied" (his words)-- that the kids don't like him, won't let him play, etc. I'm seeing both sides.

We're taking DS to talk with someone and potentially an neuropsych exam. I'm just befuddled because DS will work for hours on something he loves, learns quickly, and is eager for friends. I know it sounds like ADHD or even HFA, but I'm not so sure. DS is a DYS and all of his WISC scores are in the gifted range, with the exception of processing, which is still 91st percentile.

DS is depressed- speaks angrily about his peers and sadly about how he used to have friends in K and 1st (he had a lot of class turnover this year, and his "group" has left the school). He said he's tried to play what the kids are playing at recess, but is not a strong athlete (and was told by the boys that he was not "allowed" to play). He seems to have some trouble understanding rough "boy play." It makes him anxious and is another reason he doesn't participate.

Anyway, sigh.

Hugs, cammom. My heart goes out to you and to your DS. Could some of what you are seeing simply be asynchronous development? If so, I believe that age 7 could be a pretty tough time for kiddos with uneven development:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/creative-synthesis/201201/many-ages-once

Kids with ADHD can pay good attention to things that interest them, so I wouldn't rule it out. If he is acting impulsively toward the other kids, that could cause social issues. When DD is not medicated she tends to be bossy, touch other kids excessively, overreacts emotionally to things, and can be downright annoying. Can you go in class and observe? That might give you a better idea of what is going on.

That was the same age we started having problems with school and it was mostly due to the inappropriate school environment.

A few things come to mind.

First, being able to concentrate on something of interest doesn't rule out ADHD. People with ADHD can hyperfocus on subjects of interest.

Being gifted/PG doesn't rule out ADHD or HFA. My daughter has been dx with all 3. She has also been underchallenged with a bad school fit for the last 3 years, which imo has absolutely made her behavior much worse. Nor does desiring friends. Kids with ADHD & HFA desire friends, they just don't have social skills that make it easy to make and keep friends.

It could be one or all of these things. A neuropsych eval could be a good idea to tease out what's really going on.

I agree with Howdy... sounds somewhat like my DS(just turned 8) - and IME, anxiety + poor school fit/environment can start to look like ADHD. Our psych told us that ADHD has to be present in 3 areas - so you'd need forms filled in by the teacher, yourselves and a club/extra-mural leader or grandparent or if he has a babysitter, someone like that. In our case, the only forms that have ever shown "positive" for ADHD are the school's - everywhere else he doesn't hit anywhere near enough signs for it to be likely that he has ADHD.

Has he had a sensory assessment? Sensory seekers can bump/touch/get in others' space in an effort to get the sensory input they crave and need. [There is also a pretty big overlap between ADHD "symptoms" and Sensory Processing Disorder symptoms. There was also some research that showed doing sensory therapy with kids diagnosed ADHD was beneficial.]

In general though, it does seem like it's the school fit/environment that's the biggest issue here, causing major anxiety that is affecting his behaviour/performance.

Sounds exactly like DS7 when he is under stress (eg when the other people/environment are a bad fit). Having lost his friends and having a hard time finding new ones sound like stress to me. It appears to be one of those catch 22 situations when you have a hard time teasing apart what's what because the environment is a constant, even though you really need to observe him what he's like when it's a fit.
However, if all this wasn't so much of a problem when his friends were still there that's your answer at least for the social difficulties.
The school isn't pushing medication, right? That would sound very inappropriate. How about a round of OT for the sensory stuff and some mild CBT for the anxiety as first resorts and see how it goes?

Tigerle- thank you. It's been a rough year so far at home and school for DS.

We're getting some evaluation done for DS- but medication won't be our first "go to." I suspect anxiety, possible inattentive issues, and definitely some lagging social understanding.

No- I believe the school has intentions to help DS, and medication was not brought up. I absolutely agree with some CBT and possibly an OT if we discover sensory issues.

I'm not sure what the best school or social fit would be for DS. His anxiety, perfectionism, and social awkwardness make him a poor candidate for a highly competitive environment.

I still believe in the school- they are kind, and will try to meet DS's needs. I just want the social exclusion and mean comments by some of the other students to stop- it makes everything worse and DS is sad, irritable, and frustrated.

Sending you and your ds a hug cammom - I'm sorry he's struggling.

I don't have much advice to add, but a few small thoughts:


2nd grade is often the year that children who have challenges start to really bump up against "the wall" at school - it's easier for kids to not stand out as "different" in K-1 because so many of their peers are still adjusting to school and academic demands aren't really setting in yet.


I have two kids who appeared to melt down when they made mistakes at the same age, and I was sure it was perfectionism and personality at the time, but educational and neuropsych evals revealed it was actually a learning challenge for both of them (dysgraphia for ds, dyslexia for dd). It is so easy to *not* see this type of challenge in HG/+ kids at a young age because what is easier to see are the strengths in their intellect. For instance, it was soooo so very clear to us that our EG ds was extremely intelligent because of what he *said* verbally. It never occurred to us the reason he seemed to hesitate with written work was an LD, we thought it was perfectionism associated with being intellectually gifted.


It sounds like there are two things going on - your ds is having difficulty with social communications, and his classroom peers are in turn, bullying him. School atmosphere/personality can be huge when it comes to this type of situation - irrelevant of academics. You might find a change in school (or even just a change in classroom) would alleviate the issue with peers bullying your ds, even if he is continuing to struggle with understanding social cues. So much can change based on a teacher's attitude and how he/she deals with making sure all children are respected and included in a classroom.


As aufilia mentioned above, it's quite possible to be intellectually gifted and also have challenges such as ADHD or an LD or whatever. It's almost impossible as a parent to tease out what's really up without the help of a professional. I'd really *really* suggest the neuropsych eval - we were truly caught off guard by what was found in each of our dd/ds evals (we totally suspected something different for each), but having the info has been invaluable.


As the mom of a boy who isn't an athlete or "rough" by nature, I've seen how this disconnect with some boys can happen, but I'd also caution - not all boys are playing rough on the playground. When a child (boy or girl) is having a tough time making friends at school, it's worth looking beyond the typical stereotypes of thinking, it must be because the boys all play rough or "she's not interested in dolls" etc.

Our ds went through a similar thing with having a tough time making friends in elementary school - he had two good buddies in K-1, but they were put into separate classes in second grade. His buddies went on to make new friends, but ds grew increasingly socially isolated and withdrawn. For our ds, the real issue turned out to be anxiety that was leading to a severe depression - all routed in his inability to keep up at school when none of the adults around him realized what was going on. Changing out his classroom, getting him help with his challenges etc eased the anxiety. It wasn't a quick and easy path, but eventually he was able to function socially when we had the other pieces understood and accommodated.

It's just so difficult to really peel apart all the layers that may be present to get to the core of what's really going on without the help of a professional.

Wishing the best for you and your ds -

polarbear

Thank you polarbear. I'm having trouble separating the "chicken from the egg" in regards to my son's behavior.

DS is clearly angry about not having any friends at school- and it's aggravating his misbehavior in both places. I'm concerned because although DS is articulate on how he feels excluded and friendless, he's not showing much insight into his role in the situation.

I think ADHD inattentive is a possibility- but we're dealing with extreme frustration, perfectionism, anxiety, and overall social awkwardness and immaturity. Given that DS's attention is highly selective- there's a part of me that wonders if it's not ADHD at all, but HFA (or at least borderline enough to cause a lot of issues).

All of this will be answered with a full evaluation and a psychologist who specializes in gifted kids. We're so incredibly lucky to have DS taken on by this doctor. Her speciality is gifted children, she facilitates social groups, and runs parent support groups. Our whole family is alternating sad for and exasperated at DS- so we may all require a group:)