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#201819  09/23/14 08:22 PM
Re: Learning math computations
[Re: blackcat]

Member
Registered: 08/24/10
Posts: 3428

She must be pretty fluent for her to have passed the pretest? Or could she have gotten lucky? I wonder if you can assess her yourself? As seen in my thread, I have a DD in 6th grade math and they are hammering upperlevel fluencyvery LONG long division problems, multistep word problems that involve doing multidigit multiplication and long division of decimals, etc. Interestingly, they are also still spending a ton of time on highlevel estimation and mental math skills, which DD hates with a passion (she really likes to be exact and just DO the problem!), but which I am starting to see the sense of (it's a number sense thing).

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#202047  09/26/14 11:03 AM
Re: Learning math computations/Prealgebra
[Re: master of none]

Member
Registered: 02/17/14
Posts: 582

Can I hop on with a prealgebra question? My 9 and 10 year olds are both in 5th grade math doing long division, story problems with multiplication and division, plus taking an after school pre algebra class that uses the "Art of Problem Solving" text book. From what I am reading in this thread, it sounds like it is a good idea to keep plugging away at the multiplication and division work because it needs to become second nature to the kids. My younger one likes the "fun" stuff with Art of Problem Solving and gripes about the boring times tables. It sounds like I have plenty of ammunition to hold her to the fire?

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#202067  09/26/14 02:11 PM
Re: Learning math computations/Prealgebra
[Re: blackcat]

Member
Registered: 05/23/13
Posts: 2154

I think the pretest was multiple choice and I have no idea what was on it or what grade levels it was testing. They also looked at the computerized test scores (abovelevel) for math from the past year or so and compared all the subscores like "numbers and operations", "algebra", "geometry" etc. and supposedly considered all the data to decide where to place kids. I suspect DD is REALLY good at multiple choice tests for math and is able to eliminate obviously stupid answers. Doesn't mean she knows how to do the computations. I have baiscally no idea what goes on in that class and there is almost no homework but she says she's working at her own pace and passed the first test and is on chapter two now. I think I'm going to log her into a lower level course, though, which most of the kids in her grade are doing, and have her do it as well to make sure there are no gaps and give her extra practice. The videos/quizzes are online.

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#202072  09/26/14 02:40 PM
Re: Learning math computations/Prealgebra
[Re: blackcat]

Member
Registered: 04/26/14
Posts: 4039

I noticed this same phenomenon with one of mine when we were using the Singapore Math Primary Math test books. During the brief period of time when I was experimenting with using the tests, I switched from the openresponse to multiplechoice forms mainly because of handwriting/finemotor issues, but then found that #2 was a really good guesser on mc problems. Of course, it's not really guessing; it's having good number sense, estimation, and problemsolving skills. All excellent things. Unfortunately, that does not substitute for actually being able to generate precise answers when necessary!
It did help me see that we would have to work on computation and problem solving somewhat independently, though.
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#202077  09/26/14 03:47 PM
Re: Learning math computations/Prealgebra
[Re: blackcat]

Member
Registered: 05/23/13
Posts: 2154

The teacher emailed me and said that he is struggling to get her to "show her work". Big surprise there, with her writing issues. I'm not sure what the solution is. I think she needs to copy problems out of a textbook into a notebook and she is not used to that. Everything up until this point has been workbooks. She is also supposed to be "taking notes" while watching the videos. She is 8 (almost 9)is this really a realistic expectation? I just don't see that happening considering she couldn't even keep up with spelling tests last year and had the words all out of order (or completely blank) on the paper. I'm brainstorming for what I want put into a 504. She has a disability, but there is also just a huge gap between her age and the age of kids who normally do this sort of work, probably 7th8th graders. Even the kids in her group are about 2 years older than her on average.

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#202079  09/26/14 04:08 PM
Re: Learning math computations/Prealgebra
[Re: blackcat]

Member
Registered: 06/30/12
Posts: 144
Loc: Seattle

Are any of those issues really impacting her? I.e. is someone else noticing she doesn't take notes, does not showing your work mean the problem itself isn't copied or just the intermediary steps and/or is the lack notes harming her comprehension?

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#202137  09/27/14 03:31 PM
Re: Learning math computations/Prealgebra
[Re: blackcat]

Member
Registered: 09/11/13
Posts: 816

blackcat, I wouldn't be too crazy about the watching videos and taking notes approach, especially if she is not a quick scribe. So is this how instruction will take place going forward? I wonder the same things you do about DD9 and multiple choice tests  she is VERY good at them, but I do sometimes wonder whether she is almost TOO good at them, KWIM? DD cannot get away with not showing her work in math class, though...under our lovely Common Corealigned EM classes she must. painstakingly, show. and. explain. her. work. (plus do the problems multiple ways). Surely, there is a happy medium? I'd still take your math over our math at this point. I think that everything DD has done so far this year has been review for her, so I am not yet sure how (if?) she will demonstrate math progress this year.

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#202138  09/27/14 04:13 PM
Re: Learning math computations/Prealgebra
[Re: blackcat]

Member
Registered: 05/23/13
Posts: 2154

I'm skeptical of the "flipped math". So basically they watch video lectures on an ipad or something (who knowsI have her use a PC when she does it at home). And they do the actual "work" in classat their own pace. They do some of the problems in the textbook. Luckily it's not like EM, it's more like what you or I would have done. If the kids don't understand what they are doing in class they are supposed to ask the teacher for help. It doesn't seem ideal but it is way better than what she was doing last year. Listening to longwinded lectures about how you figure out 5X3 and boring workbooks at the wrong level. To "move on" to the next unit, they need to score 90 percent or something on the unit test. But none of the kids would be taking the same test on the same day, necessarily. I'm not really sure what the purpose of the notes are. Because the textbooks are right there in the classroom. If she finishes the entire book and passes the tests, then they will move her onto Algebra I, even if it's the middle of the year. I just need to find out if all the tests are multiple choice. Because if they are, that seems like a really bad idea and I can see why he wants her to show the computations then.

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#202140  09/27/14 04:41 PM
Re: Learning math computations/Prealgebra
[Re: blackcat]

Member
Registered: 02/17/12
Posts: 1390
Loc: Seattle area

My daughter loooooooved her flipped math class last year, for what that's worth.

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#202141  09/27/14 04:53 PM
Re: Learning math computations/Prealgebra
[Re: blackcat]

Member
Registered: 04/26/14
Posts: 4039

Our oldest also had a flipped math class at one point, with a similar structure, which worked out fine. But the notes were graded only for their existence, not their length or quality. Actually, I think the teacher treated the notes more as documentation that the videos were watched.
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