Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional 60 point spread between VCI & PSI

Anecdote 2: While working on a budget, I scribbled a sum ($107+$12). Just for grins, I asked DS if he knew the answer. He stared at it for a long while, and finally answered "They should have the euro in England."

Just wanted to weigh in as the parent of another kid with whopping spreads. 40 points difference between verbal comprehension and visual perception, 50 points each between verbal and both processing speed and working memory. Her scores ranged from above the 99th percentile to below the 1st percentile. Neuropsych labeled her "NLD-ish" even though she lacks the social component. He said "It's a useful diagnostic concept" and "It's easier than saying super high verbal along with dyslexia, dysgraphia, dyspraxia, math disability, etc." He also labeled her with ADHD-Inattentive which we flatly reject, as do her teachers, her former preschool teacher and just about anyone who has ever come in contact with her... We think he very effectively measured her being shut down due to anxiety.

My DD is s-l-o-w in everything she does. It's like she spends her life slogging through molasses. At 9 1/2 she still can't ride a bike or tie her shoes. She can't write by hand but is learning to keyboard. She can't decode well enough to read on grade level But she loves Shakespeare and history and can remember every detail of every audio book she has ever listened to. She understands the concepts of higher order math but can't remember math fact adding or subtracting to 10. She is in out of district placement at a special Ed school where her day is filled with OT, speech. Wilson reading, 1-1 math instruction along with a reading comprehension group 5 grade levels ahead and enrichment 90 minutes a week because the high level reading group is still below her level.

I recently tried to explain it to someone by saying its like when 8 major highways come together and you have a complex set of flower pedals you need to navigate as you try to connect to the right road. Apparently for my DD the verbal is a direct road through. Everything else, though, has to meander and turn this way and that until it finds the right path.

We went to a well respected general neuropsych who told me he didn't think it was a good idea to see someone who specialized just in gifted kids because he's afraid specialists tend to find only what they are looking for. A generalist was more likely to pick up on bigger picture items. We have another evaluation coming up soon and are going with a 2E specialist the Eides recommended.

I just wanted to let you know you are not alone. I won't kid you - my DD's path is not going to be easy. I think the earlier you can get some answers and start working on remediating the deficits the better.

Good luck!

I want to add another "My kid, too." My DS6 was recently assessed to have a 94 point spread between VCI (extended norms - 188) and processing speed (94).

Amber - I hope you don't mind a little related discussion. Can we use this thread to explore processing speed measurements a little?

Having done a ton of reading - I have a working hypothesis, but can't seem to find research to back it up. I do believe there is a processing issue. But I don't think that's the only thing going on. I'll give a couple anecdotes to illustrate:

Anecdote 1: DS has a whopping difference between processing speed and VCI/PRI. That does not reconcile with his performance on the "name that supercar" game. This is a game with a picture of a supercar (e.g., Ferrari) covered by 20 squares in a 4X5 grid. You click squares to remove them one at a time. As quickly as you can, identify the car from 4 supplied answers. Your score is a function of difficulty, speed and accuracy.

DS routinely kills this game, beating everybody's score - and this includes car nerds from all over the world. Usually he needs to turn over exactly one square, either in the headlight or tail light area. And let me be clear - the answer is not "Ferrari." It has to be "Ferrari 458 Speciale." Very detailed answers selecting from closely related models.

He also does this when we are driving on the highway. A fancy car will flash by. I ask, "Was that a Lotus?" "No, Mom - didn't you see the door handles? That was a Tesla Roadster. That one fools you every time doesn't it?" (It does.)

This is Very. Rapid. Processing. For context, he also does this with sea creatures and gems/minerals.

So - what gives. My working hypothesis is that these HG/EG/PG kids do have processing issues. But it's maybe not just speed. Or not speed at all. They are also processing an enormous volume of information that flashes into their brains when they observe. They gather in waaaay more information about everything, as compared to neurotypical folks. And they do it instantly. This brings me to anecdote 2, which I think illustrates how this volume factor can slow down ANSWERING, even if it doesn't slow down PROCESSING.

Anecdote 2: While working on a budget, I scribbled a sum ($107+$12). Just for grins, I asked DS if he knew the answer. He stared at it for a long while, and finally answered "They should have the euro in England."

As best he could explain, this is because my Dad taught me to write my "7" with a slash through it, like they do in Europe. This appears to have led to a long string of thoughts, naturally leading through Italian super cars (see above), whose price we often see listed in pounds in British car magazines. DS knew about how many dollars were in a pound, and how many dollars were in a euro, but got stuck trying to figure from that how many pounds were in a euro. He found this annoying and decided they should just use the euro in England.

So - exactly what volume of "stuff" is a kid like DS processing when he sees something like "107+12"?

Hypothetical example of how this rabbit-holing could play out: "Wow - this is the third time in a row that the correct answer on an IQ test is 'c'." That's weird. If it was a coin toss then, you might get the same answer 3 times in a row. But there are 4 possible answers here. That would seem to make 3 c's in a row unlikely. I wonder how I could figure out those odds. I mean, how does this compare to the odds of getting 3 aces in a poker hand. I think Max cheated when we were playing poker yesterday. I didn't see him cheat. But he got three of a kind a bunch of times. He must have been cheating. I don't want to play cards with him anymore. Hmmmm - "Max cheats" is not one of the answers to this question. What was that question again"

Maybe this is some variant of ADD or ADHD, if it reflects inability to focus (bad). Or maybe it reflects ability to pull in seemingly unrelated information from multiple sources instantaneously (good). Or both, but we don't want to squash (good) in the interest of improving (bad).

I'm wondering if any of you folks have talked through this sort of idea with your specialists, or if you know of any research on the issue. My gut says it's a big part of the puzzle. It might be mucking up kids' scores on testing to the extent you are really trying to measure "processing speed" versus "processing speed, assuming only this discrete information on the page is processed."

Argh - must stop writing, and thanks if you are still reading by now. But this is really weighing on my mind, and you folks seem like a truly optimal group to discuss this with.

Sue