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    #199827 09/02/14 03:08 PM
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    suevv Offline OP
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    Hi all,

    We recently received assessment results for DS6. He tested as PG with dyslexia/dysgraphia. He is having trouble in school with reading/writing assignments, and general behavioral issues.

    We are trying to sort out the best way to start addressing his dyslexia challenges, preferably without squashing his dyslexia strengths. The (public) school is maintaining their position that no services are available to him because he is performing at expected levels.

    It seems we have many choices - private school for dyslexic learners; private tutoring with a dyslexia "program " (e.g. Lindamood Bell); hiring a tutor; doing things on our own at home.

    We are open to any of the above, but not sure how to dial in what is the best path for DS. And we have so many questions - how do we find out his level of dyslexia? What are the right questions to find out if a private school or tutor is suitable for a 2e kid like DS. And in the back of our minds - what is his "prognosis."

    I've provided his quantitative test results below. Any suggestion as to how to kick off?

    Many thanks - and here are those numbers:

    FSIQ (extended norms) 149
    GAI (extended norms) 178
    VCI(extended norms)- 188
    PRI (extended norms) - 139
    Working memory - 113
    Processing speed - 94

    Achievement test results (WIAT-III) were low relative to IQ:
    Math Composite 135
    Oral Composite 134

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    Whoa! Those are HUGE IQ scores!

    My son is also dyslexic -- tests in the pg range (if you count the DYS cut off as pg -- not even close to your son!)

    We remediated with intensive tutoring through Lindamood Bell. I felt lucky because they seemed to "get" him and started him at the right level. But they were very clear that they don't usually see kids like my son -- and your kid is about 3 standard deviations above my son. I think part of what worked for us at LMB was the individual staff. I think that you have a really unusual kid. Is homeschooling an option?

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    Sorry no advice but I'm hoping to learn from your thread if we are 2e smile

    Last edited by Displaced; 09/03/14 07:34 AM.

    Life is the hardest teacher. It gives the test first and then teaches the lesson.
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    aeh Offline
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    I notice you do not have reading or writing achievement. That would be pretty key in looking at dyslexia. I would also look for some phonological awareness testing, such as the PAT2 or CTOPP-2. The PAL-II is another good instrument. You'll need to look for testing that examines nonsense word decoding/reading, so that he cannot cover any decoding weaknesses using memorized sight vocabulary. Do you have visual-motor data, such as through an OT eval? The PSI is concerning (although less so for a six y-o on the WISC).


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    suevv Offline OP
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    Hi aeh

    Thanks for the input. We are awaiting the final written report. But the preliminary report included the following. We didn't get a composite score, though, for reading/writing. Is that something we should ask for?

    The WIAT-III subtests that look like reading and writing achievement were these: Early Reading Skills - 99; Spelling - 104; Oral Expression - 114; Listening Comprehension - 146.

    The WJ-III subtests were these: Writing Samples - 106; Letter-Word Identification 101; Word Attack - 109; Spelling of Sounds - 102. Also (though not strictly reading/writing) - Understanding Directions - 76.

    Also - On the Gray Oral Reading Test he scored below 20th percentile on all subtests.

    Re the other tests you mentioned:

    On CTOPP he had too many errors to even be scored.

    Beery-Buktenica Visual Motor Integration Results were: Visual Motor Integration 64; Visual Perception 120; Motor Coordination 84. These results are very confusing to me. Among other things, the kid is athletic and coordinated. He's been riding a bike with no training wheels since he was 4, and he regularly hits 45 mph pitches from a pitching machine. And he has great fine motor skills when it comes to Lego or drawing things he is interested in drawing.

    There are several other test results, but none with the initials PAL or PAT.

    Any further feedback you can provide would be so appreciated. Also can you expand on why the PSI is less concerning for a 6-year old?

    The more I look at this information, the more confused I get. Of course I hope and trust that the final report will explain things in detail, but I'm having a hard time waiting because school is already going badly.

    I'm getting so anxious even as I type this out .... Ugh.

    Sue

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    suevv Offline OP
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    Hi Displaced,

    Thanks for your reply. It's a wild ride isn't it? I'm glad to have your company.

    Sue

    Last edited by suevv; 09/03/14 10:49 AM.
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    Hi Gabalyn,

    Thanks for your reply. You made me smile and panic at the same time. It's so funny to think of DS as an outlier in THIS of all places. And many thanks for the LMB feedback. I set up a call with them for today and I will definitely spell out the issues based on your input.

    Sue

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    aeh Offline
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    Originally Posted by suevv
    Hi aeh

    Thanks for the input. We are awaiting the final written report. But the preliminary report included the following. We didn't get a composite score, though, for reading/writing. Is that something we should ask for?

    The WIAT-III subtests that look like reading and writing achievement were these: Early Reading Skills - 99; Spelling - 104; Oral Expression - 114; Listening Comprehension - 146.

    The WJ-III subtests were these: Writing Samples - 106; Letter-Word Identification 101; Word Attack - 109; Spelling of Sounds - 102. Also (though not strictly reading/writing) - Understanding Directions - 76.

    Also - On the Gray Oral Reading Test he scored below 20th percentile on all subtests.

    Re the other tests you mentioned:

    On CTOPP he had too many errors to even be scored.

    Beery-Buktenica Visual Motor Integration Results were: Visual Motor Integration 64; Visual Perception 120; Motor Coordination 84. These results are very confusing to me. Among other things, the kid is athletic and coordinated. He's been riding a bike with no training wheels since he was 4, and he regularly hits 45 mph pitches from a pitching machine. And he has great fine motor skills when it comes to Lego or drawing things he is interested in drawing.

    There are several other test results, but none with the initials PAL or PAT.

    Any further feedback you can provide would be so appreciated. Also can you expand on why the PSI is less concerning for a 6-year old?

    The more I look at this information, the more confused I get. Of course I hope and trust that the final report will explain things in detail, but I'm having a hard time waiting because school is already going badly.

    I'm getting so anxious even as I type this out .... Ugh.

    Sue

    You have no composite scores for reading and writing because none of the clusters had enough subtests administered. These are the reading subtests:

    WIAT-III Early Reading Skills 99
    WJ-III Letter-Word ID 101
    WJ-III Word Attack 109
    GORT <20%

    Average across the board decoding skills, in isolation, below average when in connected text. Both normative and personal weaknesses.

    Writing subtests:

    WIAT-III Spelling 104
    WJ-III Writing Samples 106
    WJ-III Spelling of Sounds 102

    Average basic skills and brief written expression. Hugely discrepant from cognition, of course.

    Oral Language subtests:

    WIAT-III Oral Expression 114
    WIAT-III Listening Comprehension 146
    WJ-III Understanding Directions 76

    High Average expressive language, curiously divergent listening comprehension, with one measure extremely high, approaching his verbal cognition, and one noticeably below average. The big difference between the two is that the first task more closely resembles natural language use, while the second requires you to attend very carefully to long series of rather artificial directions. Auditory working memory and attention are important for this. All areas are weaker than verbal cognition.

    Math: Appears comparable to his perceptual reasoning.

    VMI: I will posit a hypothesis having to do with encoding of symbols, which is the big difference between the real-life motor coordination activities you describe, and the abstract/symbolic designs that constitute the test materials on the VMI.

    CTOPP: So basically his entire vocabulary of decoding (reading) and encoding (spelling) is memorized, since he appears to have untestably negligible phonological awareness.

    PSI: It's the beginning of the norms, and the range of normal development for fine-motor skills is wide, so it's harder to interpret in isolation. But given the VMI and CTOPP results, I would say the relative weakness in PSI is not just developmental.

    You have CTOPP results, so the PAL and PAT aren't as critical, for dyslexia. I might like PAL scores for dysgraphia, though.

    I would say, based on the prelim results you've posted, you're looking at quite significant deficits that are very dyslexic/dysgraphic in appearance, in conjunction with extraordinary strength in verbal ability, and relative "weakness" in perceptual ability (though clearly still normatively strong).

    ETA: You don't necessarily need R/W composite scores.

    Last edited by aeh; 09/03/14 12:11 PM.

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    aeh, if I may butt in here for a moment, can you comment on the significance of the reverse profile, when a child is relatively good at the understanding directions test but struggles with listening comprehension? Does that get you thinking about any disorder in particular?

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    Hi Sue,

    I'm not a professional, so can only speak from my personal experience parenting one dysgraphic child and one dyslexic child, but here are a few thought for you that might help -

    Originally Posted by suevv
    Beery-Buktenica Visual Motor Integration Results were: Visual Motor Integration 64; Visual Perception 120; Motor Coordination 84. These results are very confusing to me. Among other things, the kid is athletic and coordinated. He's been riding a bike with no training wheels since he was 4, and he regularly hits 45 mph pitches from a pitching machine. And he has great fine motor skills when it comes to Lego or drawing things he is interested in drawing.

    Dysgraphia is not just about fine motor ability, it's a neurological issue related to connections the brain which make the act of developing automaticity of handwriting a challenge. Many dysgraphic people are great artists - my ds is able to draw *amazingly* well - he was drawing pictures that made adults gasp when he was only 3-5 years old. There are, however, fundamental differences between the act of drawing and the act of handwriting. When you draw, you leave your pencil on the paper most of the time and lines connect/etc; when you use handwriting you are constantly having to pick up your pencil and put it down in another location. More significantly, when you draw you are creating as you go, but when you use handwriting you are putting a specific symbol on paper that - in order to be fluent - you have to have developed an automaticity of muscle/brain memory that allows your fingers to "know" what they are drawing without having to think about it. My dysgraphic ds will tell you - he has to think about how he forms his letters, even now, at almost 15 years old.


    Quote
    The more I look at this information, the more confused I get.

    I think you'll find a lot of us 2e parents will have a lot of empathy with you here! And just my experience, but with some kids it's a lot tougher detangling the puzzle than it is with others - for instance, even though he is severely challenged, my dysgraphic ds' challenges are, for the most part, fairly straightforward. My dyslexic dd, otoh, soooo totally not straightforward or easy to know which direction to go re remediation etc. This may not sound helpful… but fwiw, *understanding* is just one part of the challenge - the other part (for parents) is advocating and making decisions re which way to go re accommodations etc. What I've found is that it's a journey - you won't have all the answers up front, but you do your best to understand what you do know from testing, observing your child, looking closely at academic work and classroom experiences, and even your gut feelings. Then you make a plan, accommodate/remediate/etc, and then somewhere along the way you'll make progress and that may yield yet another clue which yields another adjustment in the remediation/accommodation/etc plan. It can all seem incredibly confusing at first, but you'll see your understanding and clarity grow as you move forward.

    Quote
    Of course I hope and trust that the final report will explain things in detail,

    What I've found after receiving those final reports was that I then had more questions - so for me, I found it really helpful to schedule both a follow-up interview with the person who did the testing (for us, this was included in our "package", and then schedule another extra follow-up for a month or so later, after I'd had time to take ds/dd home, get back into our routine, try a few things out, and really have time to think through what was in the report. Once I'd done that, I always had 100+ more questions to ask, and by making an appointment and actually going in to see the tester and ask the questions in person led to a much more thorough and helpful discussion than trying to ask them via email would have accomplished.

    Quote
    but I'm having a hard time waiting because school is already going badly.

    I'm getting so anxious even as I type this out .... Ugh.

    How much longer do you have to wait for the report? Have you asked for informal accommodations at school while you are waiting? What kinds of things are going badly at school at the moment - if you list a few, we can try to brainstorm to help you come up with strategies you can use until you get your report.

    Best wishes,

    polarbear

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