Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Advice regarding services for gifted

DS6 (now in first) tested for gifted by IQ last year after going through testing because of a concern of a LD. No LD was found at that time but we are still pursuing because of his young age and difficulties with writing and some residual concerns with reading.

My question pertains to his school and their gifted program. Last year, because we pursued testing privately (not prompted by the school to evaluate for gifted), they had him placed in the pull out program in his school for this year. They have a reading and a math program, and students can do one or the other, but not both. He was placed in reading despite all the concerns of a LD. His teacher last year didn't think he should be in gifted, but "if she HAD to pick, it would be reading". The objection against the math program was mostly because he didn't answer math questions with 100% accuracy despite knowing the material.

So, after two weeks, he's really struggling in the gifted pull out reading program. Basically it's supposed to be independent research based reading, plus it seems they write about it. Writing is usually a show-stopper for DS, but he'll talk all about it! And reading is on level for his age but not fluent. And he isn't reading chapter books "like the other kids in the class".

I really pushed to switch to the math gifted program but was basically stone-walled and got nowhere.

I'm very conflicted. I want him to receive services because he is intelligent. Is math his favorite subject? No. Could he excel beyond the easy first grade curriculum? Likely yes, I think, but I don't push math at home. Do I want to pressure him and be a tiger mom? No.

But I feel like they didn't want to even try to put him in the math class because of what a teacher last year said, based on the school's drill and kill worksheets and him missing a couple questions and not getting every single answer correct. He also doesn't "live for math" like the math gifted kids.

There are compelling reasons to not necessarily place him. He is young (just turned 6 and starting first), plus the academics are good-ish for a public school. There tend to be a lot of red-shirted kids there too, so it's almost as if he skipped a grade just based on age and logistics of the school. But I know he wasn't challenged at all in math last year, and I think the teacher was biased because of his difficulties. We still have more testing to do as he has gotten older and I think the discrepancies are worsening. And now that his is 6, he can do a regular test with achievement as well vs. the younger age tests.

Anyway, this all boils down to my question of the day. Would you push for math services? Give your young child more time to mature (he's not yet complaining of class being boring but says math is easy when I question him directly)? Wait for more information after repeat testing, especially if he may need services he cannot get now? Should I after school math to make sure he actually learns something this year in math? Last year we were so focused on remediation I had to drop all math instruction, but I could easily just let him do dream box or something like that.

If I wait, what if he never "lives for math"? What kind of indicator is that anyway?

Sorry, I'm just frustrated and feel like I failed as my child's advocate. And now I'm second guessing the whole thing as I know I can force him to be in the math gifted by law since he qualifies. Right?

Thanks for any thoughts!

That's a difficult question to answer because so much depends on the specifics of your school and the pull-outs as well as any LD that your DS has. Since you are proceeding with repeat testing, I would be inclined to get a clearer understanding of his issues before approaching the school. At our school, 2nd grade math starts incorporating increasingly heavy writing requirements and it may backfire as far as your DS' attitude towards math if you put him in the pull-outs without special accommodations if it turns out that he needs them. Furthermore, you can absolutely acquire knowledge/skills in much of elementary math without formal teaching/curriculum. In fact, that was how DS in particular picked up much of the elementary math. I am referring to activities like shopping, baking, cooking, and games, etc.

First of all, realize that whatever decision you make now will not "make or break" his academics for the rest of his life. I worry about lots of stuff (just ask my kids), and I recall worrying about a number of things when they were little. As I look back now, for most issues, the long term success or failure of the kid was not affected by one decision when they were small.

Second, don't feel that you have failed. There will be lots of other opportunities to advocate for him down the road (we've almost made it through the latest one re: AP French, I hope).

If he seems happy, I wouldn't sweat it too much. I think elementary school is easy for many kids in our district. However, most seem happy and well-adjusted. While the kids may be capable of more than what is asked of them, they have opportunities for acceleration down the road (starting in 5th in math for our district). I haven't seen that it hurts these kids long term. The very bright kids end up doing research with university professors in HS, placing nationally in academic competitions, go on to elite colleges, etc.

I have a little one too. She turned 10 this summer and started 5th grade today. She has been accelerated into 6th grade math, but she doesn't really seem too concerned with acceleration, testing for the gifted program (we haven't tested her, older two were tested by school in 7th grade), etc. She explores those academic areas that interest her on her own time, and that is fine with me. We might advocate for more accelerated/advanced courses once she hits HS, but I think it will turn out fine. Eldest is a happy college sophomore and middle kid just started 11th. They are fine despite DH and I not advocating much until MS/HS.

Good luck with whatever decision you make - it will be fine.

My advice is a bit different than that above.


Yes. Yes, I would.

Honestly, the way that literacy seems to work for most gifted children is rather binary-- something flips the switch at some point between 2 and 10 years of age, and then they are... fluent. I've not seen a lot of anecdote to indicate that external inputs have much to do with that particular arc for gifted children. Oh, sure-- you can give them decoding skills, and teach particular analysis and writing techniques-- but reading fluently and for fun/understanding/learning? That just comes when it's time. (BARRING a learning disability or other challenge, I mean.)

MATH, though...

I'm concerned about the trend that you saw. Bear in mind that what your child is learning now is numeracy-- not "mathematics" per se. The other thing that he's learning, from your description, is that anything less than PERFECT is "not good enough." That is a huge red flag for me.

Gifted children are incredibly prone to perfectionism-- and task avoidance, even-- and this seems like a situation tailor-made to develop it. I'd press for at least SOME differentiation based upon potential rather than just on current performance-- maybe pretesting or even out of level testing of some kind to figure out just what WOULD be more appropriate. Leaving him unchallenged isn't necessarily a good strategy long-term, because he learns that school isn't for learning new things, but for demonstrating mastery. At a level which needs to be perfect.

See the problem? You definitely don't want several years' worth of THAT thinking happening by the time he reaches actual mathematics in late elementary.

I would not over-worry or over-think this decision either way - if you think he'd benefit from switching to gifted math, I'd advocate for it, but otoh if you think he's happy and ok for this year where he's at, I'd let him stay. My thinking is a bit round-about and may include things others wouldn't think of based on a potential 2e situation with your ds - so here goes, in no particular order:

1) If you *do* decide to advocate to get him into the gifted math pull-out, I'd take a second-look at the questions he's missed in previous testing. If he *is* dysgraphic or dyslexic, there's a chance he might be missing math problems simply due to copying numbers incorrectly or switching them around accidentally etc. That happened to my dysgraphic ds *all* the time in elementary school math. My dyslexic dd also misses math word problems not because she doesn't understand the math conceptually but because she doesn't interpret what she's read correctly - if you listen to her talk through a word problem it's clear she's not read the actual words correctly but she is doing the correct math for what she thought she read.

2) Since there's the possibility of dyslexia/dysgraphia, my main focus at this point would be on the further testing you need to determine what's up, and then focus on remediation and putting accommodations in place. Then your ds will be ready *fully* to enter higher-level gifted or accelerated programs and will be able to be successful at them. I wouldn't want to place him in an accelerated program if there was any concern that he might struggle or not do well there due to an LD.

3) I wouldn't worry about whether or not math was a favorite subject for my child as a requirement for accelerating him in math. You might be surprised to find that once he's accelerated and challenged math actually becomes his favorite subject, or he might never ever like math at all - but neither one of those is a reason to accelerate/not accelerate. Would you hold your ds back a year if the school asked you to just because he hadn't shown enthusiasm about moving forward to the next grade?

Hope that makes sense - good luck with your advocating!

polarbear

What an odd gifted program. It never fails to amaze me what schools come up with. Parents need to choose either math OR reading? What if a gifted kid excels at both? Then they are just out of luck with the other subject?
Anyway....I have two 2e kids, and have done some reading on this subject. The optimal situation for them is to be placed at a level that is on par with their cognitive abilities, and be given support and/or accommodations for whatever the weaknesses are. DD has slow processing speed, but no trouble understanding concepts, so it would make sense to reduce the number of problems she needs to do, for instance, and give her extra time for tests. DS is weak for writing so he needs to be given a break with unnecessary writing. Does he really need to explain in three sentences how he figured out that 8+7= 15? Give me a break. Some math curriculums seem worse than others with this. We also talked about him getting an AT eval to find out what technology might help with writing (like ipad apps), so that he CAN do things like math at an advanced level.
If your school fails in this regard, then I think you have some tough decisions to make, since you will not want him to struggle. Only you know if the math is unchallenging for him. If he is bringing home homework and never needs any help, for instance, he probably needs to move up to a higher level, regardless of whether he says he is bored or asks to be moved up.

Thank you for this perspective. After speaking with the gifted teachers and them discussing what the students do/are doing (after I had just explained about our concerns for LD), I then had to clearly explain that if he has a LD he would likely not be able to do what she was explaining (extensive writing, etc) ever or at least not this year.

It left me thinking they did not want to accommodate, when in reality I'm wondering if they may not know how to accommodate or not have much experience in it because they're gifted. I don't know how many 2e kids they have but I'm left wondering what their practical experience is with 2e. If I have some objective advice on how to accommodate besides some vague statement to do it if needed, I think it would help us, as well as an official diagnosis.

I'm doing a lot more math games with DS, and will look into living math types of stuff at home.

Thank you for this perspective. It's hard for me to not get caught up in the here and now, wondering what could be accomplished if given the opportunity.

Yes, I see your point. The gifted teacher made it seem like the math gifted program was full of savants just listing off numbers. If that's what the class is like, DS would actually not like it. Or if they're giving worksheets out (which would make DS need to write more), he wouldn't like it. The school in general is hyper focused on testing and testing and more testing. And I continually remind DS to just do his best, that perfection is not a goal (IMO), and that struggling and making mistakes are an accomplishment. He doesn't believe me though. I keep telling him that the hard work is making him grow and do better.

I think I'm too worn out to pursue forcing a gifted program at the moment, knowing it will also mean I'll likely have to fight for them to accommodate him. I don't want to justify his being in gifted. I want some evidence on what is really going on, and why and how to address it. I feel in a way the Kindy teacher has basically spoiled their thoughts because of how strongly they were saying she didn't recommend DS for either program but if she HAD to choose...

I'm getting repeat testing, hopefully within a few months (why do these things always take so long?), and in the meantime I'll be reviewing concepts with DS, playing with C rods, doing games, etc. Also we'll be starting with OT, getting ophtho exam, and afterschool activities. I feel like I need to focus on handwriting and seeing if there is a LD before delving into gifted help, but then if/when that's over I can fight the next new fight.

Thank you, very good insight and advice!

I agree if DS is happy I don't "mind" him being in general education. I think/thought his errors in math were d/t lack of attention in general/boredom/goofing off. Which is a problem if that's because he's bored from the easiness. IDK if it's maturity, boredom, or what.

I think I will focus on repeat testing and then if something is found I'll have all my ducks in a row for the next phase. This plan won't work though unless there is a LD or there's a dramatic increase in abilities from now until the next time I look into placing him in gifted program.

I also agree regarding the math subject. That's why I fought for him for so long during the conference before giving up the battle. I didn't mention in my first post, but the gifted program in our school is struggling. They lost a teacher, had nothing assigned until after school started, many of the students are getting much less service than they used to, etc. I'm silently wondering if they are just overwhelmed and see DS struggling and figure if that's something they can get off their plate until next year, why not? I don't want to make it sound like a purposeful thing (which is why I didn't mention it before). I'm sure a 2e child is not exactly the most straightforward child to instruct, though, IYKWIM?