Gifted Bulletin Board

Welcome to the Gifted Issues Discussion Forum.

We invite you to share your experiences and to post information about advocacy, research and other gifted education issues on this free public discussion forum.
CLICK HERE to Log In. Click here for the Board Rules.

Links


Learn about Davidson Academy Online - for profoundly gifted students living anywhere in the U.S. & Canada.

The Davidson Institute is a national nonprofit dedicated to supporting profoundly gifted students through the following programs:

  • Fellows Scholarship
  • Young Scholars
  • Davidson Academy
  • THINK Summer Institute

  • Subscribe to the Davidson Institute's eNews-Update Newsletter >

    Free Gifted Resources & Guides >

    Who's Online Now
    0 members (), 210 guests, and 14 robots.
    Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
    Newest Members
    streble, DeliciousPizza, prominentdigitiz, parentologyco, Smartlady60
    11,413 Registered Users
    March
    S M T W T F S
    1 2
    3 4 5 6 7 8 9
    10 11 12 13 14 15 16
    17 18 19 20 21 22 23
    24 25 26 27 28 29 30
    31
    Previous Thread
    Next Thread
    Print Thread
    Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
    #199366 08/26/14 11:30 AM
    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,489
    B
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    B
    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,489
    DS15 is finally done with his testing and I should have a written report tomorrow AM. He starts back school next Tuesday, has been in marching band from 8-3:30 for the past week, registered for classes yesterday and has been chipping away at his online drivers ed class one chapter at a time, so he can get that done before school starts. DS is already really really anxious about the start of the new school year. At lot of this has to do with him being upset and worried that he will have no "peers" in his classes this year and that it is social embarrassing to not be in all the top honors.

    I have been going crazy, deferring a lot of decisions till I get the full report tomorrow. The short story is my DS is depressed and anxious, gifted, has a written language processing disorder and shows mild ASD characteristics but not enough to label him Autistic. Not sure if this will be good enough for a 504 or IEP at his school.

    Short term I need to figure out how to help him this fall. I am going to go talk with one of the local 1:1 High Schools in the area, to see if we could arrange an English class with them. Still unsure if his H.S. will allow him to take English privately or not. English is the class I see the public H.S. accommodating his needs the least. And the other reasons for this is trying to manage his Anxiety. Because of a new schedule change, and that he is in Marching Band he will have to start school at 7AM next week. If we can offload one of his academics classes to a private 1:1 school, he will probably get more sleep although it will make his afternoons more crazy.

    Still not sure.. how he are going to fit in everything he WANT to do, everything I want him to do, and still give him some needed and wanted down time. I'm trying to figure out how to balance, social activities (like band, robotics club), various therapies, and the academics without driving both of us nuts.

    Any suggestions on Anxiety management for teenagers. Going to a psychiatrist and considering meds is on the table but so far everyone is saying give it a little bit longer to see how the new years works out & if therapy helps. DS isn't really excited about the idea of drugs, and I'll admit I'm on the fence about it.

    Joined: Jun 2014
    Posts: 469
    LAF Offline
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Jun 2014
    Posts: 469
    I don't know if anything will work for your child in particular, as my kids are still younger much than your son. But anxiety runs in my family. Things that seem to work:

    getting enough sleep
    lots of exercise
    some type of cognitive therapy (learning coping mechanisms, stopping negative talk etc.)
    my brother says heavy work (lifting, shoveling, etc.) helps him reduce anxiety as well as meditating
    gardening (there is some study that says bacteria(?) in the soil actually helps counteract depression/anxiety
    Controlling blood sugar spikes /dips etc.
    having something you are involved in that is meaningful

    I can't help you with the schedule, but you can try things and change as needed.


    Joined: Apr 2013
    Posts: 5,244
    Likes: 1
    I
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    I
    Joined: Apr 2013
    Posts: 5,244
    Likes: 1
    Originally Posted by bluemagic
    Any suggestions on Anxiety management for teenagers.
    This resource-rich article on the Davidson database interviews Thomas Greenspon and discusses the relationship between anxiety and perfectionism. One section provides a list of links to several books and articles which may be of interest.

    The American Psychological Association, Magination Press, has published a book "Understanding Myself: A kid's guide to intense emotions and strong feelings". Chapter 7 is titled "Anxiety", while "Fear" is the title of Chapter 8.

    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 2,035
    P
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    P
    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 2,035
    SSRIs do take the edge off anxiety - for me anyway. They don't prevent it but they do stop obsessively worrying about unimportant things and the really strange dreams.

    Joined: Apr 2014
    Posts: 4,047
    A
    aeh Offline
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    A
    Joined: Apr 2014
    Posts: 4,047
    Another great resource for adolescents with anxiety:

    website from the Annenberg Center at UPenn:

    www.copecaredeal.org

    this page with info on anxiety specifically:

    http://www.copecaredeal.org/MZ_Articles.aspx?Condition=1

    books written for parents about specific mental health issues, including anxiety:

    http://www.copecaredeal.org/Articles.aspx?Theme=TheDeal&ArticleID=105

    books written by young adults who lived through mental illness in adolescence, and continue to cope with it as functioning adults:

    http://www.copecaredeal.org/Articles.aspx?Theme=TheDeal&ArticleID=104

    These are all freely downloadable books (I have paperback copies of them from a couple of years ago, and I think you can still buy paper copies, if you prefer.)

    The above resources are largely written with adolescents as the direct audience, and, I think, are particularly helpful for high-cognitive kids, who need more information about their diagnosis to accept and manage it.

    I would highly recommend that you look into cognitive-behavioral therapy. It has a good evidence-base, unlike most MH therapies, and can be the difference between meds/no meds, or at least a lower dose of meds.

    A lot of my students with anxiety run (especially outdoors), lift weights, do martial arts, etc., as a coping mechanism. And I would reiterate that it is really important to take care of basic needs well, and to leave enough space.


    ...pronounced like the long vowel and first letter of the alphabet...
    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,489
    B
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    B
    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,489
    Thanks for all the suggestions. I will look at all the articles. It's been a crazy week and school hasn't even started yet. Partly because it's also my daughter last week before going back to college.

    As to the schedule it's brand new "later" start. H.S. used to start at 7:30am for everyone, but instead they moved regular start to 8am but there is a "0" period at 7am. Marching band takes up 2 periods of the day, so in order to get in English, S.S., math, science and a language one needs to take "0" period at 7am. He would easily drop Spanish II, as it's not a H.S. requirement but he needs it for college eligibility. The school had been proudly announcing how it's pushed the start of school later, but in our case it makes thing worse.

    P.S. Our band rarely plays inside the gym. It's CA, in the rare case it rains they just quit. It's really a great activity for him, the band kids are good, geeky kids. It keeps him busy, invested in school, and social.

    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,489
    B
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    B
    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,489
    Originally Posted by master of none
    That schedule is brutal! I know, we are living it too. With a kid that needs a lot of sleep (10 hours) and has anxiety and a 504. We are letting the sleep cycle evolve- probably includes an afternoon nap so bedtimes are not unreasonably early and because school is exhausting.
    You are not the first person to suggest as afternoon nap. We will see, not sure if I can MAKE him nap. But it might help and make he more alert for homework time. Problem is we are going to have to put a bunch of therapy appointments and such in the afternoons.

    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 2,035
    P
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    P
    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 2,035
    I had to have afternoon rests when I started high school. It was my first experience of changing classes and the school was much bigger - it was exhausting just coping with it.

    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,489
    B
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    B
    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,489
    OK.. just came back from 1:1 school. It was a bust. The only way to make it work would be for Spanish. I really wanted this kind of class for one of DS's writing intensive courses. Was annoyed they couldn't tell me that on the phone. Didn't really like the director, she did one of those amazed 'Oh he's already in precalculus this year' statements that make me feel she really doesn't "get" gifted kids.

    And I'm annoyed because the psychologist promised me this report this AM and there is still no signs of it. We figure out a way to securely get me a digital document, as well sending one by mail.

    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,489
    B
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    B
    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,489
    Psyc finally updated DS's full report last night... Not entirely happy with the report, or the testing. Seems she "gave up" quickly on testing his main academic area of frustration, his expressive writing and spend hours testing the ASD side of things. There is one really low score in Essay Writing on the WIAT-III that puts DS at 0.5% or less than a 3rd grade level. While this would easily qualify him for a 504/IEP and therefore meets my needs. I can't see the school believing this number, as he sometimes gets A's on H.S. honors level essays. It's more of a "block" when he does write he writes well. And this report does not reflect this very well. I will be getting back the psyc on this but I hopefully I can get feedback from the Educational Therapist, and my husband before I send her back feedback.

    There were a lot of tests done.. scores on the WISC are as follows. (I might edit this to remove test scores in a few days)

    WISC IV
    VCI: 121 (92%)
    Similarities: 17 (99%)
    Vocab: 14 (91%)
    Comprehension: 10 (50%)


    PRI: 137 (99%)
    Block Design: 15 (95%)
    Picture Concepts: 17 (99%)
    Matrix Reasoning: 16 (98%)

    WMI: 99 (47%)
    Digit Span: 9 (37%)
    Letter-Number Seq.: 11 (63%)

    PSI: 94 (34%)
    Coding: 9 (37%)
    Symbol Search: 9 (37%)

    Full Scale 120 (91%)

    Code
    WAIT-III
    Listening Comprehension  114  82nd     11.5
    Reading Comprehension    122  93rd    >12.9
    Math Problem Solving     131  98th    >12.9
    Sentence Composition     111  77th    >12.9
    Word Reading             114  82nd    >12.9
    Essay Composition         61  0.5th    <3.0     *******
    Pseudoword Decoding      112  79th     >12.9
    Numerical Operations     124  95th     >12.9
    Oral Reading Fluency     109  73rd      12.9
    Oral Reading Accuracy     89  23rd      6.5
    Oral Reading Rate        108  70th     >12.9
    
    Total Reading 119  90%
    Basic Reading 114  82%
    Reading Comprehension and Fluency  119  90th
    Mathematics   130   98th
    

    I notice she did not include a GAI and I am going to ask her to include this. When I found a link that describes how to calculate a GAI, it seems as if his GAI would be 135.

    Last edited by bluemagic; 08/28/14 09:37 AM.
    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,489
    B
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    B
    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,489
    As DS is a teenager and 15 1/2 (Today is the half birthday, significant because he can now eligable to take the test for his drivers permit.) I have been keeping him in the loop and plan to share the results with him. I realized that I don't really understand many of the sub tests or how they relate. My next task is to print out more copies, & drop this off at his gifted psychologist & education therapist and see if we can get moving on some real "solutions".

    It's very reassuring to hear that your DS got a similar score on the Essay Composition. I know it's helpful that it provides documentation of a LD, that we can show school and see if we can get help. On the other hand it feels it doesn't illustrate what my son really is capable of.

    Joined: Apr 2014
    Posts: 4,047
    A
    aeh Offline
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    A
    Joined: Apr 2014
    Posts: 4,047
    I have an appointment right now, so I'll have to get back to this later, but a few quick notes:

    Essay Composition and Oral Reading Fluency really jump out at me among the achievement scores, as does Comprehension (and of course WMI and PSI) among the cognitive scores.


    ...pronounced like the long vowel and first letter of the alphabet...
    Joined: Apr 2014
    Posts: 4
    D
    Junior Member
    Offline
    Junior Member
    D
    Joined: Apr 2014
    Posts: 4
    bluemagic,

    Your son sounds exactly like mine, and his WISC scores are remarkably similar, too. My son is 20 and his writer's block is worse than ever. I think that his anxiety over writing is a huge part, but not all. We obviously did not get enough help early on. He is taking a break from college this year because of this. We spent over $10,000 on one program this summer with little gains.

    We have now been advised to look at two other things. First, is movement based on the theories of S'cool moves and Brain Highways. I am very skeptical. The second is described on socialthinking.com. This sounds more promising to me.

    Please keep me posted.

    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,489
    B
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    B
    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,489
    Originally Posted by daber
    bluemagic,

    Your son sounds exactly like mine, and his WISC scores are remarkably similar, too. My son is 20 and his writer's block is worse than ever. I think that his anxiety over writing is a huge part, but not all. We obviously did not get enough help early on. He is taking a break from college this year because of this. We spent over $10,000 on one program this summer with little gains.

    We have now been advised to look at two other things. First, is movement based on the theories of S'cool moves and Brain Highways. I am very skeptical. The second is described on socialthinking.com. This sounds more promising to me.

    Please keep me posted.
    It's good to know we aren't alone. But on the other hand I am hoping we can get him INTO college at this point and I am hoping for concrete solutions. Even though I know they probably don't exist. Anxiety is a big part of DS's problems. Good luck with your son.


    Last edited by bluemagic; 08/28/14 02:32 PM.
    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,489
    B
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    B
    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,489
    Originally Posted by aeh
    I have an appointment right now, so I'll have to get back to this later, but a few quick notes:

    Essay Composition and Oral Reading Fluency really jump out at me among the achievement scores, as does Comprehension (and of course WMI and PSI) among the cognitive scores.
    Thanks.. I do appreciate your input. There is a lot more to the report. But I wasn't going to into all of it here.

    Joined: Apr 2014
    Posts: 4,047
    A
    aeh Offline
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    A
    Joined: Apr 2014
    Posts: 4,047
    1. Yes, GAI is 135, significantly higher than FSIQ, at a base rate of 0.9%, and well under p<.05 (difference of 8 is p<.05).
    2. I can understand her wanting to chase the ASD to some extent, especially with Comprehension being notably lower than Voc and Sim, and perhaps anything she may have seen in his presentation and history that we can't see in these scores, but,
    3. The extremely low Essay Composition scores, along with relative WMI and PSI weaknesses (we have discussed low WMI and PSI more extensively elsewhere), definitely warranted further eval of written expression. Did she include a TOWL-4? The absurdly large difference between Sentence Comp and Essay Comp usually says difficulty with idea generation and organization of written expression to me. His underlying writing skills are clearly solid, as he can write a sentence at a time, however, that does not translate into the skills necessary for consistent high school-level writing. EC is an opinion essay about your personal preferences. I suspect he had difficulty pinning down a legitimate opinion about a relatively trivial topic. It is also a moderately timed task, as you are only allowed 10 minutes to both plan and execute a brief essay.

    I am curious as to whether subscores were listed for Sentence Comp. I find that students with difficulty with open-ended writing often do the best on Sentence Combining, slightly worse on Sentence Building, and then bomb Essay Comp.

    An alternate interpretation of the discrepant Comprehension score might have to do with the less well-defined nature of that task, compared to the other two. While the evaluator was probably chasing the social comprehension aspect of it, he may actually have been struggling with the open-ended "why" nature of many of the items.
    4. It also concerns me that there is a substantial difference between his oral reading accuracy when reading a list of single words, and when reading words in connected text, and attempting simultaneously to comprehend said text. Any indication that he read the word reading list any slower or faster? Or that he needed to re-read or slow down for the reading comprehension subtest? (Granted, if his miscalls are largely insignificant words, it may explain his high comprehension anyway.)
    5. Reading achievement is grossly in line with his VCI, as mathematics is with his PRI, but PRI is notably higher than VCI, which would be consistent with expressive language relative weaknesses, feeding into written expression weaknesses, mostly in the form of difficulty with idea generation and organization.

    The main thing I would hope for your son to have in his documentation that has not previously been mentioned is some reference to these last two elements of written expression (idea generation, organization). They are particularly important when you consider the kind of higher-level literary analysis and persuasive writing that is expected in upper-division HS English classes. His sporadic brilliant performance is probably closely related to his personal connection to essay topics, which enables him to generate ideas more freely, and to use context from his life experience and special interests to scaffold the organization of his writing. When it's an essay about some literary figure from an era or culture with little connection or relevance to him, he likely struggles greatly. I would suggest accommodations that include making explicit connections between writing topics and his personal experience and interests, priming the pump for idea generation with personally-relevant classroom discussion as part of his pre-writing activities, and the use of a variety of graphic organizers and concept maps to scaffold the organization of his writing.


    ...pronounced like the long vowel and first letter of the alphabet...
    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,489
    B
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    B
    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,489
    Thank you. Your interpretation is very valuable. Thank you for taking the time to look this information over and give me all the helpful advice.

    Originally Posted by aeh
    1. Yes, GAI is 135, significantly higher than FSIQ, at a base rate of 0.9%, and well under p<.05 (difference of 8 is p<.05).
    2. I can understand her wanting to chase the ASD to some extent, especially with Comprehension being notably lower than Voc and Sim, and perhaps anything she may have seen in his presentation and history that we can't see in these scores, but,
    3. The extremely low Essay Composition scores, along with relative WMI and PSI weaknesses (we have discussed low WMI and PSI more extensively elsewhere), definitely warranted further eval of written expression. Did she include a TOWL-4?
    No I don't see a TOWL-4. I think this is one of the things I was finding odd about the report. She didn't seem to try more tests that would pinpoint more about Written Language Expression. There is a CASL - more about Spoken Language.

    Originally Posted by aeh
    The absurdly large difference between Sentence Comp and Essay Comp usually says difficulty with idea generation and organization of written expression to me. His underlying writing skills are clearly solid, as he can write a sentence at a time, however, that does not translate into the skills necessary for consistent high school-level writing. EC is an opinion essay about your personal preferences. I suspect he had difficulty pinning down a legitimate opinion about a relatively trivial topic. It is also a moderately timed task, as you are only allowed 10 minutes to both plan and execute a brief essay.
    This is what I've been trying to tell everyone and it feels that this report is missing. It's what I keep trying to say OVER & OVER again and it seems like people don't want to listen. DS's gifted psyc is going to look over this report and the tests and issue her own "report". Hopefully she will be better at this. I'm glad you can see this in these numbers.

    I think this is partly because it's more complicated to help a student with. It's easy to say.. well he just needs more writing instruction, and try teaching him the same thing over & over again.
    Originally Posted by aeh
    I am curious as to whether subscores were listed for Sentence Comp. I find that students with difficulty with open-ended writing often do the best on Sentence Combining, slightly worse on Sentence Building, and then bomb Essay Comp.
    We do have some more details, I'm not sure if these are the sub scores you are looking for the were awkwardly written in the body of the text.
    Word Count SS=63;
    Theme and Organization SS=71
    Essay Composition SS=61 (0.5%)

    "Quanlitatively, he struggled notably to decide on a topic and appropriate content for his essay. He appeared to experience significant frustration and anxiety in the process. He indicatied that he was unsure of the appropriateness of his idea's for the essay."

    I seem to remember him telling me he wrote this about soccer because he couldn't think of what else to write. He is a teen who is altogether uninterested in sports and I suspect the topic was one that he found completely uninteresting.

    Originally Posted by aeh
    An alternate interpretation of the discrepant Comprehension score might have to do with the less well-defined nature of that task, compared to the other two. While the evaluator was probably chasing the social comprehension aspect of it, he may actually have been struggling with the open-ended "why" nature of many of the items.
    4. It also concerns me that there is a substantial difference between his oral reading accuracy when reading a list of single words, and when reading words in connected text, and attempting simultaneously to comprehend said text. Any indication that he read the word reading list any slower or faster? Or that he needed to re-read or slow down for the reading comprehension subtest? (Granted, if his miscalls are largely insignificant words, it may explain his high comprehension anyway.)
    It's not in the document but I seem to remember her saying it was often small words.
    Originally Posted by aeh
    5. Reading achievement is grossly in line with his VCI, as mathematics is with his PRI, but PRI is notably higher than VCI, which would be consistent with expressive language relative weaknesses, feeding into written expression weaknesses, mostly in the form of difficulty with idea generation and organization.

    The main thing I would hope for your son to have in his documentation that has not previously been mentioned is some reference to these last two elements of written expression (idea generation, organization). They are particularly important when you consider the kind of higher-level literary analysis and persuasive writing that is expected in upper-division HS English classes.
    Yes using graphic organizers & idea generators is in the list of recommendations, much to his chagrin.

    Originally Posted by aeh
    His sporadic brilliant performance is probably closely related to his personal connection to essay topics, which enables him to generate ideas more freely, and to use context from his life experience and special interests to scaffold the organization of his writing. When it's an essay about some literary figure from an era or culture with little connection or relevance to him, he likely struggles greatly. I would suggest accommodations that include making explicit connections between writing topics and his personal experience and interests, priming the pump for idea generation with personally-relevant classroom discussion as part of his pre-writing activities, and the use of a variety of graphic organizers and concept maps to scaffold the organization of his writing.
    In more than one place in the document it refers to how much better he does when he is interested in a topic. (I know this is a problem.) The WRAML2 for example, the tester read him orally two different texts. The first that he clearly wasn't interested in he got really low scores, and the second he got very high scores. Resulting in "average scores overall. This is a common theme, if he is interested in a topic he can do extremely well, but tunes out if he considers the topic boring. (Reminds me of his father.)

    Joined: Apr 2014
    Posts: 4,047
    A
    aeh Offline
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    A
    Joined: Apr 2014
    Posts: 4,047
    The critical piece regarding how his interest affects his performance is that it is not a function of being picky, but of how his prior knowledge and contextual framework are essential to his ability to connect and organize thoughts in writing. (I don't want to give his father an excuse for selective attention, but that may be the cognitive processing origins of his behavior, too!)


    ...pronounced like the long vowel and first letter of the alphabet...
    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,489
    B
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    B
    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,489
    I am sure that helps, the more he knows about something the easier is to write about it. But he also gets stuck on things like "write about your FAVORITE...", "tell us about your summer", and anything else that expects him to reveal something personal. A college application essay is going to be like pulling teeth. (Assuming we get that far.)

    Last edited by bluemagic; 08/28/14 09:56 PM.
    Joined: Mar 2014
    Posts: 313
    N
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    N
    Joined: Mar 2014
    Posts: 313
    DS15 is so similar. This week's assignments of "what does the American dream mean to you, give a personal perspective" along with the multi-media "all about me" were a killer. I wonder if they share another trait? While he loves music and his private teachers, DS does not like being the focus of attention for 30-60 minutes. He changed to a piano teacher who, in addition to building on his particular skills, plays collaboratively with him. There's a lot of back-and-forth playing, duets, etc, and they have a lot of fun. DS is becoming a better musician, not just able to play difficult pieces.

    In clarinet lessons, he has been ready to quit lessons for the same reason, too much focus on him. From time to time they play duets to his delight, so we talked with the teacher about incorporating that more into the lesson. She will! DS would even be open to a shared lesson, but the logistics of doing that at school are difficult.

    DS also does not like to perform solo. He does piano recitals because they are required, but he will never take band as an honors course because you have to perform solos. He also doesn't want to compete, whether in music, academic teAms, etc. He even approached cross-country as "personal best", not a race.

    Does your DS have similar difficulty? It seems to be related to the "revealing their inner selves" perhaps.

    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,489
    B
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    B
    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,489
    Originally Posted by NotherBen
    DS15 is so similar. This week's assignments of "what does the American dream mean to you, give a personal perspective" along with the multi-media "all about me" were a killer. I wonder if they share another trait? While he loves music and his private teachers, DS does not like being the focus of attention for 30-60 minutes. He changed to a piano teacher who, in addition to building on his particular skills, plays collaboratively with him. There's a lot of back-and-forth playing, duets, etc, and they have a lot of fun. DS is becoming a better musician, not just able to play difficult pieces.

    In clarinet lessons, he has been ready to quit lessons for the same reason, too much focus on him. From time to time they play duets to his delight, so we talked with the teacher about incorporating that more into the lesson. She will! DS would even be open to a shared lesson, but the logistics of doing that at school are difficult.

    DS also does not like to perform solo. He does piano recitals because they are required, but he will never take band as an honors course because you have to perform solos. He also doesn't want to compete, whether in music, academic teAms, etc. He even approached cross-country as "personal best", not a race.

    Does your DS have similar difficulty? It seems to be related to the "revealing their inner selves" perhaps.
    I think so.. It's one of the reasons DS likes band, marching band he doesn't have to be singled out. Our honors band doesn't require solo's. And DS's clarinet teacher does a lot of duets with my DS.

    That essay would be a killer for my DS as well. Give a personal perspective even for something he cares about just about guarantees that he will write about 3 sentences. When writing his big end of year social studies project last year, when we got to that part I just told him to write a conclusion. Teacher took a few points off for that, but it made negligible difference in his overall grade so we didn't sweat it.

    School starts next Tuesday, I find out who he has for teachers this afternoon. I am so not looking forward to school starting this year.

    Joined: Apr 2014
    Posts: 4,047
    A
    aeh Offline
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    A
    Joined: Apr 2014
    Posts: 4,047
    Some people struggle more with perspective-taking; this is probably why the evaluator for bluemagic's DS spent so much time chasing the ASD side of things. Making inferences about other people's opinions is quite challenging if one's theory of mind is not as well-developed, even in individuals who are subclinical WRT ASD. And then, for some high-cognitive individuals, the desire for precision is so compelling that they have extreme reluctance to commit to any hypothesis about another person's thinking or motivation in the absence of what they consider adequate evidence. For those who have had largely positive experiences in their formative years, this sometimes manifests as what others perceive as ingenuousness or guilelessness: innocent until proven guilty, with a higher standard of proof than most people. For those with the opposite experience or temperamental orientation, it may present as cynicism. (I have a sibling in each category--same upbringing, so sometimes it's more temperament than experience.)

    Questions that include the word "favorite" are difficult, because how can one absolutely choose a favorite, unless one has comprehensive information about all of the possible options (and does one even have awareness of all of the options)? Besides, one might have different favorites for different functions or situations. I like your strategy of redefining "favorite" in opinion writing. I do something similar when I assess this kind of learner, which is to bend the administration very slightly when I encounter a stuck kid, by giving them permission to pick "A favorite", rather than "YOUR favorite". (Of course, I have to mention the clinical observation in the narrative, as it is just as important as the writing skills themselves.)

    Last edited by aeh; 08/29/14 08:39 AM. Reason: sibs

    ...pronounced like the long vowel and first letter of the alphabet...
    Joined: Apr 2010
    Posts: 2,498
    D
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    D
    Joined: Apr 2010
    Posts: 2,498
    AEH, you are tremendous.
    DeeDee

    Joined: Sep 2009
    Posts: 683
    K
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    K
    Joined: Sep 2009
    Posts: 683
    I'm following this with interest. We had DD12's 504 meeting last week. One of the teachers made an effort to pinpoint where DD's writing struggles kick in. Dd's extreme anxiety over spelling was evident to all in the room. We also figured out that DD's writing anxiety starts when she has to do anything more than a paragraph for a variety of reasons including uncertainty about how to organize her thoughts and what I will call issues of authenticity/emotional connection. She also has moments when her writing is deep and thoughtful and other moments when she can't seem to get anything on the page.

    MON, I think that the authenticity issue is this is similar to your "favorite" issue. DD seems completely paralyzed when she does not feel that she can answer something honestly. If a prompt says "name three interesting features in this article," she won't be able to answer if she didn't find three things interesting. If it says favorite and she didn't have a favorite, she feels like she is being dishonest. Her sister has tried to talk her through this by telling her to fake it and just write something and that no one is going to fact check whether something is "interesting" or her "favorite." DD is resistant.

    ETA: I think that I crossed posts with aeh. I think that some of the nuances of "your favorite" that he described are also at play.


    She also has struggled when she has to write about a book where she did not find any redeeming qualities in the characters. For example, she hated Tom Sawyer. Her teacher asked them to describe Tom's character. She had a terrible time writing about him because she couldn't stand the thought of thinking about him. I think that she is so empathetic that she felt violated letting this annoying character back in her head. I finally got her over her initial block by scribing her rant about what an annoying, self-absorbed, drama queen he was (her words, not mine). I gave her the written rant and told her to find evidence for it. She gets so emotional that I also wish she would "not take it so dang personally!"

    I have a good feeling that the teacher who asked all of the questions trying to pinpoint DD's struggles will be a great support for her. Understanding the issues at hand seems like a great start. Now we have to start figuring out how to work past them.

    Last edited by knute974; 08/29/14 09:08 AM.
    Joined: Apr 2013
    Posts: 5,244
    Likes: 1
    I
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    I
    Joined: Apr 2013
    Posts: 5,244
    Likes: 1
    Quote
    I finally got her over her initial block by scribing her rant... I gave her the written rant and told her to find evidence for it.
    Some may say this is a bit like the process parents go through in preparing for advocacy, n'cest pas?

    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,489
    B
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    B
    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,489
    BTW I have worked with my son on these issues. We have had multiple conversations about how when you are asked to choose a "favorite" to just pick something you can talk about. Turn this into Write about a "x" that you know something about. And I remind him it's not like the teacher is really going to "know" that blue isn't really his favorite color. This is why even wrote 3 sentences rather than zero for his test, he ended up picking soccer to write about.

    And how for certain essays, it's more that the teacher wants to see your writing skills. And that sometimes the prompt is just that, somewhere to start and as long as you can write something coherent you don't have to answer the prompt precisely. The trick is to know when this is true and when it isn't.

    Originally Posted by knute974
    She also has struggled when she has to write about a book where she did not find any redeeming qualities in the characters. For example, she hated Tom Sawyer. Her teacher asked them to describe Tom's character. She had a terrible time writing about him because she couldn't stand the thought of thinking about him. I think that she is so empathetic that she felt violated letting this annoying character back in her head. I finally got her over her initial block by scribing her rant about what an annoying, self-absorbed, drama queen he was (her words, not mine). I gave her the written rant and told her to find evidence for it. She gets so emotional that I also wish she would "not take it so dang personally!"
    Back when my son was in 4-6th grade he has this school oral book "discussion" that was graded by other parents. I noticed that many many kids struggled because they thought they always had to "say something nice". I've always told my son that is and OK, valid option to say that you don't like a character or the book as long as you can find supporting reason. And I had that conversation with a number of the students. Or if they really hated the book. I had to prompt quite a few that it was OK to say you didn't like the book and why as long as you could justify your reasons.

    But just because we have talked about this for years, it doesn't always sink in at the beginning of the assignment. My son got this way about two of the poems he had to analyze last spring. What helped was to let him rant, mention that there wasn't anything wrong with his opinions if he could find evidence for it. It helped a lot. He ended up writing a silly poem to criticize the poem, he didn't turn that into the teacher but we had a good laugh about it.

    Joined: Apr 2014
    Posts: 4,047
    A
    aeh Offline
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    A
    Joined: Apr 2014
    Posts: 4,047
    Originally Posted by DeeDee
    AEH, you are tremendous.
    DeeDee
    blush


    ...pronounced like the long vowel and first letter of the alphabet...
    Joined: Jul 2010
    Posts: 948
    D
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    D
    Joined: Jul 2010
    Posts: 948
    Originally Posted by DeeDee
    AEH, you are tremendous.
    DeeDee

    AEH, pls. don't disappear before the spring when we finally get my 7 yr. old tested! Your input is invaluable.

    To the OP, thinking of you and your son.

    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,489
    B
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    B
    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,489
    Update on my update.

    The psychologist just updated the report. Looks a bit better. The basics like the scores are the same but she did include the GAI of 135. And did fix up a few of the sections. I was a bit worried that she would drop the LD label because I had a chat with her about how it's not that he doesn't know how to construct an essay. She did change the dx slightly, but I still have enough to send it to school and ask for an IEP. Not sure yet where that will go, but I'd been holding off till that was fixed.

    He has been back in school almost two weeks. It's been going OK although it was rough the first few days. He had one writing assignment based on his summer reading. Since he got the prompt and was able to talk it through me the night before he said it went well. Math and science are both graded on completion but math class is still heavily based on tests, and it shouldn't be as hard as large year. He just was frustrated because the first week had a huge amount of review homework. Not at all happy about his science teacher. Just heard from another parent that her son had her as a freshman and says that she is very disorganized. I had heard this from other avenues. Mixing that with a disorganized student doesn't make a good fit at all.

    Bad news is the educational therapist I lined up last year, can't work with him this fall for several reasons. I was really frustrated when she told me but I've gotten over it. So now I'm back to looking for someone to tutor him. I have contacted someone and am hoping to find a graduate student in English from a local university. Bio's of these students make me feel it could be a good fit. His most pressing need for one-on-one help is for his content creation and literary analysis and these students should be qualified to help.

    DS is super busy and has to get up very early. Sleep is already an issue. We did slip in a visit to the DMV yesterday and I now have a kid who has passed his written test and will be getting behind the wheel very soon. But I gave up trying to fit in everything after school, taking up precious downtime and am just pulling him out of school for a physical with his pediatrician next week.

    He has also clearly made a few friends. I finally connected with one of the other mom's and it's a shame we didn't meet earlier. Her son's been going through many of the same things, and he is in band, and lives in our neighborhood. Looks like the boys are going to get to room together on the spring band trip. This makes me so happy.

    Last edited by bluemagic; 09/11/14 04:31 PM.
    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,489
    B
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    B
    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,489
    More update on my update...

    Last night was back to school night. Chemistry teacher is VERY disorganized, sigh. And my DS has decided to HATE the English teacher. She seemed nice last night but is 7 months pregnant and will be out for a little while for maternity. I'm suspecting that might be good. DS had a meltdown about a writing assignment a few days ago, was cajoled into getting help from her today and ended up disrespecting her. He feels she is talking "down" to him and not giving him useful advice. I think part of the issue is she doesn't have the whole story at this point.

    I finally got the psyc report into school (it's only week two) and I got a call back from the counselor that the psychologist has looked it over already. We are going to schedule the second SST in the next two weeks, and we will discuss and IEP or 504 at that meeting. The counselor seems optimistic that we could get some accommodations.

    I put an add out looking for a tutor through a university English department yesterday, and I have 7 graduate students who have responded. Not entirely sure how I'm going to narrow it down, I'm impressed how the three I've done a phone interview with so far all seem excellent. Seem to understand what I'm looking for, I guess I'm going to need to narrow it down and have a few of them meet with my son.

    Last edited by bluemagic; 09/18/14 07:47 PM.
    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 2,035
    P
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    P
    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 2,035
    It is periodically suggested here (NZ) that high school should start later due to teenagers having trouble with early mornings (there was a biological/hormonal explanation) but I have never known anyone to think requiring a15 year old boy to be alert and co-operative at 7 am was a good idea.

    Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4

    Moderated by  M-Moderator 

    Link Copied to Clipboard
    Recent Posts
    Testing with accommodations
    by aeh - 03/27/24 01:58 PM
    Quotations that resonate with gifted people
    by indigo - 03/27/24 12:38 PM
    New, and you'd think I'd have a clue...
    by astronomama - 03/24/24 06:01 AM
    For those interested in astronomy, eclipses...
    by indigo - 03/23/24 06:11 PM
    Son 2e, wide discrepancy between CogAT-Terranova
    by astronomama - 03/23/24 07:21 AM
    Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5