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    #197603 - 08/01/14 09:04 AM Re: Age grouping [Re: ConnectingDots]
    notnafnaf Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/07/14
    Posts: 199
    Where I have struggled with and where I seen regrets from my mother is when the child is right at the age cutoff... either be the youngest or oldest. My sister was the youngest with the age cutoff being the day after her birthday, and my mother still struggles 20+ years later if that was the right decision. They ended up putting her into all girls school for middle school because that was when the age difference was felt the most, especially on the social and emotional maturity levels. My mother herself was sent to school 2 years younger than most of her class... and she does not believe that was a good move for her because she felt so out of sync - not academically, but in every other respect - as her friends all the way through high school.

    Before our kids were born, we were thinking if they missed the cutoff, we would not contest it (they missed it by a day or two)... but that has completely changed due to the issues we see already at 3/4 years with DS being too bored and unable to relate to age peers - instead, he rather hang out with the older kids or adults. Our next door neighbors have 3 boys - one his age and two older, and he tends to drift towards the older boys there too.

    The giftedness did throw us for a loop and caused us to completely revise our plans. And so we now have to go through the private school route with both kids to avoid the strict enforcement of the age cutoff that would hold them back just because of when their birthday is.

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    #197605 - 08/01/14 11:51 AM Re: Age grouping [Re: ConnectingDots]
    bluemagic Offline
    Member

    Registered: 03/29/13
    Posts: 1489
    The complex part of this issue is K cutoff dates. I did not hold my older DD back and wish I did. On the other hand if she had lived in most other areas of the country she would have had to spend another year in preschool. I sent her to college still only 17. What added to the problem was everyone else who was holding their children back. On the other hand my DS could have easily skipped K. And I have seen some very frustrated and bored HS seniors who had been held back.

    Personally I think this whole idea that every kid should be learning in lock step according to their age is frustrating. But iif you are going to make age distinctions you should make everyone stick to them because maturity and ability are all over the map.

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    #197614 - 08/01/14 01:40 PM Re: Age grouping [Re: ConnectingDots]
    cmguy Offline
    Member

    Registered: 03/30/14
    Posts: 387
    Questions202 I share your frustration with a school system that handles kids assembly line style like they were widgets in a factory instead of individuals.

    We won't use our (highly rated) public school system for that reason (that and DS would probably not get a lot out of 3 consecutive years of kindergarten - and the classes are too big and we worry about him getting bullied too).

    Off topic but a really great safe exercise to get stronger is sled pushing. I have my kids do it at home with laundry baskets (we put stuff in rectangular baskets to make it heavier and have them push it around on carpeted floor like engines shunting freight cars - it helps make them tired too). NFL players, sprinters and lots of other athletes do this.

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    #197615 - 08/01/14 01:45 PM Re: Age grouping [Re: master of none]
    puffin Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/11/12
    Posts: 2035
    It is like any system there are always a few who have less the pure motives most are just doing the best they can (think social welfare).

    We don't have red shirting. You start school any time from the day you turn 5 (99.9% would start the first school day after their fifth birthday) until the day you turn six. You are put in a class according to your birthdate - if you start at six you get put in the classyou would have been in if you started at five unless there is a particular reason not to that the school agreed with. But our five year olds don't spend much time learning letters as they are supposed to be reading at level 12 to 14 after 12 months at school.

    It seems to me if sports were organised by age not grade parents would not err on the side of caution so much. I do think still being at school at 19 is not a good thing.

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    #197617 - 08/01/14 02:13 PM Re: Age grouping [Re: ConnectingDots]
    mountainmom2011 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 01/05/12
    Posts: 404
    I may also delete later so please don't quote.

    I will also second that you shouldn't be quick to judge. I have two dds, the youngest was tested on the wisc as highly gifted. My oldest dd at this point has a high average iq but I question the accuracy of her testing.

    We found a way to hold our oldest dd back (late summer bday), she has dyslexia and dyscalculia. We didn't hold her back to get her into a gifted program, we held her back because she was already struggling and wanted her to not be as far behind her classmates. She still struggles but the gap isn't as severe between her and her classmates. She is very socially aware and anxious so I think she is less stressed to keep up. She is certainly not bored (nor at the top of her class) and we were lucky to get her an IEP despite the retention. I later learned of other kids in her class that are also old for grade (older than her even) and they also have learning disabilities. And fwiw I live in a pretty affluent area where the average kid is probably high average or advanced compared to national norms.

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    #197618 - 08/01/14 02:44 PM Re: Age grouping [Re: ConnectingDots]
    ConnectingDots Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/06/13
    Posts: 848
    Please understand that my original post was not intended in any way to be judgemental. I am curious about how this has become so widespread... not in situations where there is a real physical, social or intellectual concern, but as common practice and wisdom. The forum I mentioned is likely representing primarily "NT" children and forty or fifty posters (in other words, all but the original poster, who was concerned about having to put a child through K twice for arbitrary age reasons) claimed that holding children back was the best thing a parent could ever do. I am in my 40s and do not recall this variation from my school days. It was really rare to have anyone older than 18 graduate and then there had usually been a retention involved. My state also had a late cutoff, Dec 1, so I started at four with a Nov. birthday, but my classmates were all within a year of my age.

    I am also a bit sensitive because in our area, it is very rare for a boy with a summer birthday (turning five in the summer) to enter K, no matter how academically ready and socially normal. This creates really large age gaps, which make any social gaffes very pronounced for younger children. It also affects park district sports, which are organized by grade, not age.


    Edited by ConnectingDots (08/01/14 05:47 PM)

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    #197619 - 08/01/14 02:46 PM Re: Age grouping [Re: ConnectingDots]
    blackcat Offline
    Member

    Registered: 05/23/13
    Posts: 2154
    In an ideal world, the best thing for kids with disabilities would actually be to be in school at the appropriate age WITH services so that they can get help. Or a 504 so accommodations can be made for weaknesses and they can still benefit from learning in other areas. Of course it doesn't necessarily work out that way. DS has developmental coordination disorder and has a winter birthday so when he should start was never really a question. He was right in the middle of the class in terms of age (towards the young end though, probably). He did struggle with things (the glue bottle and getting caps off markers, coloring and writing comes to mind), however school was like free OT. He was working on the things that he needed to work on, which wouldn't have happened nearly as much if I had kept him home for an extra year, taking him to private OT once per week. So instead of falling further behind for his age, he was able to gain some skills and climb the percentile chart for motor skills. If a disability is so severe that it is going to lead to nothing but frustration and failure, then things are different, but in that case the child should technically be receiving special ed and getting special services to gain needed skills. I can understand why it makes sense to hold back in some cases, but if schools were actually individualizing instruction to each child's needs it technically shouldn't need to happen, and kids with disabilities/delays wouldn't struggle needlessly in school.

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    #197620 - 08/01/14 03:32 PM Re: Age grouping [Re: ConnectingDots]
    22B Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/10/13
    Posts: 1228
    Some people have given examples of why some people might choose to redshirt for the right reasons, but the OP was trying to understand why some people might choose to redshirt for the wrong reasons.

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    #197627 - 08/01/14 06:13 PM Re: Age grouping [Re: blackcat]
    aeh Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/26/14
    Posts: 3990
    Originally Posted By: blackcat
    In an ideal world, the best thing for kids with disabilities would actually be to be in school at the appropriate age WITH services so that they can get help. Or a 504 so accommodations can be made for weaknesses and they can still benefit from learning in other areas. Of course it doesn't necessarily work out that way. DS has developmental coordination disorder and has a winter birthday so when he should start was never really a question. He was right in the middle of the class in terms of age (towards the young end though, probably). He did struggle with things (the glue bottle and getting caps off markers, coloring and writing comes to mind), however school was like free OT. He was working on the things that he needed to work on, which wouldn't have happened nearly as much if I had kept him home for an extra year, taking him to private OT once per week. So instead of falling further behind for his age, he was able to gain some skills and climb the percentile chart for motor skills. If a disability is so severe that it is going to lead to nothing but frustration and failure, then things are different, but in that case the child should technically be receiving special ed and getting special services to gain needed skills. I can understand why it makes sense to hold back in some cases, but if schools were actually individualizing instruction to each child's needs it technically shouldn't need to happen, and kids with disabilities/delays wouldn't struggle needlessly in school.

    Yes! This is how the system is supposed to work. I will always remember the student I had who was held out of kindergarten until age seven, because the parent thought you couldn't send a kid to school until they were toilet trained. This was the minimally-verbal, toe-walking, hand-flapping kid. Kind of an extreme example (and what pediatrician was seeing this kid annually without alarm bells going off?). But the point is, a lot of parents think kids need to be ready to go to school, when the point of preschool child find is to identify and remediate those kids who are not ready.
    _________________________
    ...pronounced like the long vowel and first letter of the alphabet...

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    #197629 - 08/01/14 06:56 PM Re: Age grouping [Re: ConnectingDots]
    DeeDee Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/16/10
    Posts: 2498
    Don't get me started on preschool child find. It is certainly not well done here.

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